Robotic Arms: Using small docking ports as latch points?

[MDBenson]

I have been looking at various options for robotic arms to use in KSP. The Damned Robotics parts are cool if a little chunk, and the Robotic Arms Pack is neat but not that realistic as it uses magic magnetic effects from Lazor to grab stuff.

My idea is to use little docking ports to simulate the end effector and latch points akin to what NASA use on ISS and (formally) on Shuttle payloads. This way you'd have to steer the two together and then dock them. What I don't know is if, for example, moving a module with another docking port with a docked arm will screw up the docking process? Perhaps this is why it hasn't been tried before?

Anyway, I'm going to try some stuff using Damned Robotics and the Jr docking port to see if it works. If it does I would like to know how to scale the size and latch force down and make an even smaller 'baby' port that can be used with arms.

Suggestions welcome, watch this space

[Talisar]

I like this idea, but it would severely limit the usefulness of robotic arms unless you always planned ahead to place the ports on any piece that you may want to manipulate in the future (I am bad at this personally... I have restarted so many flights to add one tiny thing). However, if you made a part that you could attach/detach in eva similar to the connecter that is used in KAS so that you could place it on anything that you forgot to prior to launch, that would completely negate my concern.

[Mihara]

Kerbal Attachment System and it's electromagnets married to Damned Robotics arms seem a natural solution, it's electromagnets are far from magical and work more or less like you would expect electromagnets to work It would be even better if you could plug a connector without requiring it to be on the back of an EVA first, then you could have effector and latch points directly. (Come to think of it, a kerbal sitting in a seat can still have a connector on his back, so it should be possible to move him around on the end of a Damned Robotics arm...)

Shame both KAS and Damned Robotics have yet to be updated to 0.20 and neither currently works at all.

But I am pretty sure that hanging a module by one docking port while maneuvering it to attach to another docking port on the same ship works without issues, (people have done far more complicated things while building bases) so that is still an option.

[MDBenson]

I like this idea, but it would severely limit the usefulness of robotic arms unless you always planned ahead to place the ports on any piece that you may want to manipulate in the future (I am bad at this personally... I have restarted so many flights to add one tiny thing).

This is exactly what NASA have to do. Every piece that was carried on the Shuttle had several on it and arm manoeuvres and latch point positions had to be planned in advance to ensure the points were well placed.

However, if you made a part that you could attach/detach in eva similar to the connecter that is used in KAS so that you could place it on anything that you forgot to prior to launch, that would completely negate my concern.

NASA also did this, too. In the early Shuttle program the MMU (equivalent to the RCS backpack in KSP) was used to fly out to a satellite and attach a latch point on a few missions. Most notably when recovering SolarMax they did it while the satellite was still spinning (ground controllers lost much of the manoeuvring control of the satellite) so here id real precedent for that.

Kerbal Attachment System and it's electromagnets married to Damned Robotics arms seem a natural solution, it's electromagnets are far from magical and work more or less like you would expect electromagnets to work It would be even better if you could plug a connector without requiring it to be on the back of an EVA first, then you could have effector and latch points directly. (Come to think of it, a kerbal sitting in a seat can still have a connector on his back, so it should be possible to move him around on the end of a Damned Robotics arm...)

That's a genius idea! Yes, I like that. They are pre-attachable or EVA attachable and developed for exactly this purpose.

Again, moving astronauts on the end of the arm is something that's been done by NASA many times. They have special footplates with toe loops in for the astronauts to ride on

Shame both KAS and Damned Robotics have yet to be updated to 0.20 and neither currently works at all.

Yes.... rats :\

But I am pretty sure that hanging a module by one docking port while maneuvering it to attach to another docking port on the same ship works without issues, (people have done far more complicated things while building bases) so that is still an option.

Like I said, I'm going to try it and see. It'll keep me quiet for a day if nothing else

I like the idea of using KAS attachment points, but, provided we get that fixed (I've never used KAS and now can't test it) do you HAVE to use the winch/rope/line to pick up something by a KAS attach point or can 2 points be attached to each other?

[Talisar]

The most recent version of KAS had a moveable port that could be detached and moved to another part while not attached to the winch in EVA, then you could pay out the cable and connect the winch connector to that port. Not being a programmer, I am not certain, but I don't see why the line is completely necessary. I would think that if you had the main connector mounted on the arm, it should be able to connect to the port on the target piece if brought into the proper proximity.

Again, I'm not certain if any of this would actually work, just spitballing here.

[Mihara]

I would think that if you had the main connector mounted on the arm, it should be able to connect to the port on the target piece if brought into the proper proximity.

Unfortunately, to my knowledge that in particular does not work, at least from what I remember while trying to puzzle through the code that does it to see if I can use the mod to make Kerbals carry other objects on their backs in EVA. (Short answer to that one: Yes. And the module that attaches objects to arbitrary parts permanently can be used elsewhere, too, I checked that. See my post in the KAS thread.) Connectors will only attach to ports while triggered by right click or action group, which is only possible while they're on the back of an EVA, but will not gravitate like docking ports will.

That said, I don't think there is anything that makes such function impossible, so it might be that the author can be persuaded to code that in.

I'm also not sure what happens if you attempt to mount the connector on something other than a winch and plug it, but my guess is that it won't work, i.e. it will detach the connector from whatever it's stuck on and attach it to the port instead, which, with no cable, is not what you want.

P.S. Oh, and another idea.

Take KAS connector port models or something similarly small, switch the MODULE to the one that makes docking ports work, stick on Damned Robotics arms.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Mihara
postscriptum added

[I.R.L.]

If you talk to Bobcat, he was able to make a few solar panels for MIR movable by EVA with KAS, so maybe the same could be done with docking ports?