Duna Permanent Outpost Mission Architecture Challenge

[DBowman]

I made a fairly flat pancake fairing and put some hitchhikers behind it and let it re-enter Kerbin @ about 2km/s. If I'm looking at the whole ship the reentry effects are all on the fairing, but if I zoom in enough I can see effects on the hitchhikers. It seems to me that the game engine won't bother drawing effects if it's too far away. I don't want to exploit draw distance to imagine my craft is safe, on the other hand I don't want to make it too hard to succeed.

What's the acceptable standard? Maybe I should try Deadly re-entry? I've not used it before, how hard is it to make something safe for Duna aerocapture?

[meyst]

Deadly re-entry can be used but it sounds to me like you are already set. Otherwise make it look like it has a heat shield on it.

[vosechu]

This weekend I sat down to do some maths on whether MKS was cheating or not. For my case, it seems like it's not, but there are some cases where it definitely outperforms stock.

Around 8 kerbals MKS starts to really pay off. But I was surprised that TACLS could be done so much lighter than RCS supplies. It does add complications, for instance, your return craft are often heavier than you initially planned and you really do need to have batteries and solar panels. So maybe that extra thought complication is a tradeoff for the reduced weight compared to RCS. Regardless, I don't think any of them really change the balance significantly enough at the small scale to warrant banning any of them.

Next I'd like to evaluate Kethane vs other things but I'm not sure I even have my head wrapped around those possibilities right now so I may just have to get back to building equipment.

Minimum masses:

1 Kerbal - TACLS - 7402kg

2 Kerbals - TACLS/Stock - 12528kg

3 Kerbals - TACLS - 17030kg

4 Kerbals - TACLS - 22156kg

5 Kerbals - TACLS - 25908kg

6 Kerbals - TACLS - 31034kg

7 Kerbals - MKS - 35370kg

8 Kerbals - MKS - 37870kg

9 Kerbals - MKS - 37870kg

Just for funzies, I went out a little farther:

20 Kerbals:

MKS - 52870kg

TACLS - 94304kg

Stock - 119300kg

50 Kerbals:

MKS - 90370kg

TACLS - 228972kg

Stock - 296200kg

But here's the thing, I've not tested this many kerbals and I have a suspicion that other things start going wrong at this point. Spare parts start becoming more needed, or the biomass/compost needs are just too great. But something is bound to break down, MKS is a fairly efficient system, but it is not perfect so there's a very good chance that it would hit a wall.

TACLS also has reclaimers and recyclers, but I haven't tried those out yet or looked at the math for them. They're heavy as hell so I suspect that they're good for supporting larger installations as well.

Edited February 20, 2015 by vosechu

[vosechu]

vosechu: Duna on a budget

Until Day 0500: 2 Launches, 60 tons NIMLKO, Early Mission Value: 1058, Efficiency: 17.63

Until Day 1000: 4 Launches, 120 tons NIMLKO, Sustained Mission Value: 2256, Efficiency: 18.8

Crew Mobility 0, Base Mobility 0, Crew Safety 0, Mission Robustness 1

Mods: MKS/OKS, TACLS, NEAR, DRE, Proc Parts/Fairings, Tweakscale, RealChutes, Kethane, RCS Build Aid, Astronomer's Visual Pack, Kerbal Alarm Clock, Mechjeb/KER, Ambient Light Adjustment

Rules

Rules 1-4 (building times):

NIMLKO = 30t reusable (one launch per 45 days)

Intention was to be reusable, but not sure I succeeded here

Rules 5-7 (life support):

TACLS used to simulate

Rule 8:

Deadly Reentry/NEAR used to simulate

Rule 9:

Unintended emergency caused us to use NERVA in Duna atmo. Not part of the flight plan

Rule 10:

MKS/OKS - For massive inspiration; also OKS toroid module

TACLS - For life support tracking and large inline modules

NEAR/Deadly Reentry - For heat shields and real re-entry effects

Procedural Parts/Fairings - For fuel/some life support/batteries, fairings, decouplers

Tweakscale - For smaller NERVAs

RealChutes - For calculator and landing parachutes

Mechjeb/Kerbal Engineer - For porkchop calculator, other calculations, limited maneuver planning

Astronomers Visual Pack - For prettiness

Ambient Light Adjustment - For screenshots

RCS Build Aid - For RCS balancing

Kerbal Alarm Clock - For launch window warp killing

Kethane - For refueling escape craft

Scoring

Early Mission Score: 1058 [2*376d, 2*153d]

Sustained Mission Score: 2256 [(2*376d)*3]

Early Mission Efficiency: 17.63 [1058 / (30t * 2launches)]

Sustained Mission Efficiency: 18.8 [2256 / (30t * 4launches)]

One-way Ticket Penalty: N/A

Mission Execution: 3 (Flown non-duplicates & did a mission report)

Crew Mobility: 0

Base Mobility: 0

Crew Safety: 0

Mission Robustness: 1 (Lots of extra time to launch replacements)

Commentary

Out-of-character: Firstly, thanks to Sturmstiger for coming up with this challenge and to the community for the encouragement. This challenge was the original reason I fell in love with KSP and I'm pleased that I've finally submitted one of my attempts.

This last attempt (I've tried this on and off for a year and a half) was done under the rule that I was not allowed to second guess a decision and I could only schedule 1-hour sessions once or twice per week. Nothing like limited time to focus you absolutely.

There are lots of little things I would do differently, but I'm not dwelling on them. Or at least, I'm trying not to.

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Press Releases:

President Kerman Appoints New DAKSCMDOCBSD to Take Us To The Stars!

by Adrianne Kerman, Deputy Communications for KSP/joint-KPL

In a surprising move, President Kerman has appointed Lt. Colonel Kraig Kerman (KSAF) to the position of Deputy Administrator of KSC for Missions to Duna and Other Celestial Bodies which Start with "D" (DAKSCMDOCBSD for short). Kongress has universally confirmed the appointment after a startling slideshow of things going really fast and exploding catastrophically.

When asked about his vision for the future, Lt. Colonel Kraig Kerman responded, "It is no longer enough to dream of the stars; we must ascend to the heavens, learning everything we can along the way. We have been to the Mun, and the technology we developed for those missions has helped millions; Duna is the next step and will stretch our imaginations to the limit. A permanent colony is not to be taken lightly, but we will persevere!"

When nobody responded to his comment he added this inspiring quote, "Also, this will mean we'll have to build even larger, more explosiony rockets which we'll stream to your kPhones live." The crowd outside KSP erupted into cheers while Kraig Kerman sighed a long suffering sigh. We'll be watching very closely indeed!

KSP Announces Intention to Build Permanent Colony on Duna; Funds forthcoming.

by Adrianne Kerman, Deputy Communications for KSP/joint-KPL

With the President Kerman's recent appointment of Lt. Col. Kraig Kerman to the post of DAKSCMDOCBSD, we've been excited by the wealth of fireballs coming out of the KSP/joint-KPL building. Full funding is still forthcoming, but Kongress has awarded an initial sum of Kredits to get the process started. The total sum required to build the colony would likely wet the eyes of even the most liberal Demokrat, but prominent Kongress staffers have said that the budget would be sufficient.

For those interested in the details, the current plan is to build a fully reusable lifter capable of hefting a massive 30t into low-kerbin orbit and returning under its own power to the launchpad. Additionally, a very pretty red lander has been developed which should allow the kerbalnauts to escape from Duna should the need arise. Research into the Krater K-2 spaceplane continues and occasionally we're able to hear the test engines firing or see bits flying overhead majestically.

After the most recent thoroughly planned catastrophe, I caught up with one of the lead engineers and this was his statement, "Whew! Did you see how far that canard flew? I bet we can make it go twice as far if we put the fuel tank just underneath!"

KSP Acquires Limited Funding from Kongress to Build Colony on Duna; Populate with Rock Stars if Possible.

by Adrianne Kerman, Deputy Communications for KSP/joint-KPL

Lt. Col. Kraig Kerman, DAKSCMDOCBSD, has recently announced that Kongress appropriations has given him the full budget. He said this, "Kongress appropriations has approached me with a budget and I'm excited to announce that we will in fact be going to Duna! While the budget isn't nearly as much as we requested, we're confident that we can go to the red planet and likely come home in one piece. In addition, Kongress was quite excited about the idea of sending artists and rock stars instead of trained kerbalnauts, but I'm confident that we can put enough child-proofing over the dangerous switches so that explosions only happen when we have cameras rolling."

The crowd was particularly excited to hear about the rock stars going to space. Lacking a formal announcement of who will go to space, the Internet has exploded with speculation about which stars should go to space. Given the publics' current fascination with poetry in lyrical form, it seems likely that perhaps a poet laureate and a heavy-metal guitarist might be the logical choice.

When I asked the colonel about his favorite rock stars he stared at me for about ten seconds, sighed deeply and closed the door to his office. I can only assume that he's settling down with a host of head-shots to evaluate which would look best on camera.

KSP Successfully Launches Two Famous Artists into the Blackness of Space; Inspiration Forthcoming.

by Adrianne Kerman, Deputy Communications for KSP/joint-KPL

Whoosh! Bang! Sklaam! The Sylvie X-1 Lifter took off today, the plume of flame shaking the whole building we stood in. It was truly the thrill of a lifetime!

Nestled in the warm embrace of the firestorm was the famous Poet Laureate Vaneeta von Kerman and the Heavy Metal Banjoist Tad Kerman from Doom Pansies. Prior to today the identities of our two newest sensations was unknown, and pairing the famous laureate with the much more famous banjoist was a surprise to everyone involved.

Asked about her feelings about the pairing, Mz. von Kerman stated, "To wit, we climb like shoots under the sun. We heft, we haul, we kindle. The sky will tell our story." Mr. Kerman summed up his excitement thusly, "YEEEAAAAAHHHHH! I'm going to space! This is going to be so metal!" The only question in my mind is what it looks like to head-bang in a helmet.

[DBowman]

Thanks to Sturmstiger for this most excellent challenge. It's really gotten into my head and made me try out all sorts of things, but now it's time to stop cutting bait. I applaud vosechu's self discipline !

I had been making some prototype and proof of concept craft and kept going back and forth between things I wanted to play with and the scoring scheme. Cool realistic features like safety (what astronaut would settle for less) and mobility (an astronaut can sit in a can at home) all cost Primary Score. I couldn't find a good reason to weigh one against the other.

While watching Kubrick's Dr Strangelove I was inspired to an all out Primary Score effort.

SAY NO TO A RED DUNA! DASH 4 DUNA

In a UN speech the Krussian Premier Khrushchev drunkenly boasts "We will bury you!". The incident is widely reported and the world laughs at our impotence.

...

A spy within the Komunist space program reports the Krussians have advanced plans for a permanent Duna base of unknown size.

...

Secretary State Kissinger advises the President that 'we cannot afford a red Duna! we must preempt the Krussians with our own even more ambitious program!' - How ambitious? 'we just don't know, we'll have to go all out'

...

President KFJ addresses the nation setting out an ambitious new space program: "We chose to do this thing, and some others, not because it makes sense - but because we must be first"

...

General Keck Turgidson is appointed to head the program. Engineering says it can deliver on two of fast, cheap, and safe. Gen Keck practically explodes out of his chair "Two? Two! You WILL deliver three - fast, fast, and fast! I don't want to hear any of your Hohmann bat guano. Burn early, burn hard, and burn often!"

...

I'm putting all the details in a mission report:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/112640-Dash-4-Duna-Duna-Permanent-Outpost-Mission-Architecture-Challenge

so far the intro, lifter, and aerocapture details.

[Jonboy]

I've been working on this challenge for a while. Actually, I've already flown my first sortie to Duna and landed the first crew, and assembled my second sortie. It's currently sitting in orbit waiting for crew transfer and Duna Insertion Burn. I've just been too lazy to post. Might as well start now.

Reusable AdaPtive Technology Orbital Rocket (RAPTOR)

15 tons to LKO. 2 stages, fully reusable using Space-X style recovery techniques.

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Like I said, I've already landed two Kerbals on Duna with this rocket and have a second sortie in LKO ready for the second transfer window. I'll post the program schedule and reports from those missions soon. The program will be realistically conservative, with an emphasis on modular architecture. I'll be using Deadly Re-entry, procedural fairings, and Ven's Stock Part Revamp, along with a bunch of info mods.

Edited March 10, 2015 by Jonboy

[KeithStone]

This challenge has been the #1 thing that keeps me coming back to KSP. I've taken quite a long break, since about .23, and would have to do quite a bit to get myself back to the engineering status I was once at, but seeing this on the forums, still going strong, with my name under pending....that's just unacceptable! I've designed at least 4 separate attempts at this one, none of them flew to completion. That's going to have to change....

[DBowman]

I've added the Early Mission Flight schedule to http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/112640-Dash-4-Duna-Duna-Permanent-Outpost-Mission-Architecture-Challenge.

First 12 Kerbals on Duna by day 80.

56 Kerbals on Duna by day 305.

The next 200 days just keep them in supplies until 3 flights can land on day 530.

Early Mission Score: 15840

Early Mission Efficiency: 48

Early Mission Achievements: 0

[KeithStone]

Quick question. Most of my experience in running this challenge so far has been on the engineering side. Today, after some lucky parts-placing I was doing my first runs on testing mechjeb, engineer, and protractor to ensure a good first transfer on day 55, but got the below. Has the map ALWAYS had a terrible transfer window? The main page says the first window should be open on day 55, but I dont see that in the below. The first open window I have is on day 230. Is this normal and everyone is just burning at a really sub-optimal window, did the orbits change in the newer versions, or am I just terrible at orbit maths (Which could be the case). See below

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[Commander Zoom]

Could be that's 55 Earth days, which is 220 Kdays. The OP and a lot of FAQs were written when the program still used the former by default.

[KeithStone]

ok thanks. So the total mission time is 1000 EARTH days! WOW, that's going to make this interesting....

[DBowman]

I finally got 0.9 and also installed Deadly Reentry & TAC life support.

For anyone thinking of using the mods I found it fairly painless so far.

DR is not so deadly; sure you can fry yourself easily, but also seems not hard to avoid it. The inflatable heat shield worked okay without flipping over as it had when I tried DR in 0.25. It's nice to see the temps of parts while re-entering and it means you have some kind of objective answer the question 'will it burn up'.

TAC seems easy to understand. The 'recyclers' etc seem very heavy - but you can just take containers of stuff. I've not run multiple ships or warping etc, but I didn't see any issues flagged in forums etc when I was trying to decide between TAC, IS, & Ironcross.

I made this 4 man Duna Ascent / Decsent vehicle:

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Edited March 15, 2015 by DBowman

[borisperrons]

Seems like I'd have to start (yet) another attempt at this if I want to finally bring home some results.

My old legacy file containing the file got corrupted right when I found time to finish it. Sigh.

Let's say the reality collapsed on itself and the universe rebooted...

[DBowman]

I had taken a run at this challenge focusing on maximising Primary Score. It's not really what the challenge is about but I was having trouble trading off (for example) safety and score. I got 'stuck' in 0.25 with some mods not really working (Deadly Reentry I'm looking at you - though to be fair it was probably me). I decided to get the Primary Score MinMax 'out of my system' on a stock 0.25.

Now I'd like to take a more nuanced approach, to play with some of the mods out there, make some fun engineering solutions, and preferably have it all flyable.

My goal is a real-ish-tic plan to do in depth science, learn as much as possible about Duna in the 4000 KDays. Last time I looked the game's science system didn't seem that true to life, and I'd be doing sandbox anyway, so I'll use 'scientist astronauts' on Duna as my proxy for science. Similarly I'll add some extra constraints:

The Four Man Rule:

Lighthouses always had a three man crew - one to be in trouble, one to try to help, and one to tell the tale after it all went terribly wrong. There were quite a few cases where the lighthouse was found mysteriously unmanned. One more must be safer - right? Also four fits nicely with the various Hitchhikers and crew cabins. So four is my minimum number of Kerbals in a team.

The Belt and Suspenders Rule:

extend the original 'crew survives the loss of a single engine' to also survive the loss/failure of a single parachute. As far as is reasonable I'd similarly guard against failures of single components. I'm not too sure how far I can should push that.

The Really Robust Rule:

a failure of a single spacecraft or surface module / vehicle will not prevent the accomplishment of a mission milestone. For example if the goal is to get a crew up for a particular return flight and an ascent vehicle is lost/malfunctioning there should be another available, or if the milestone is to get a Duna scan-sat network up on the first flight then the loss of any one satellite should not prevent the network getting all the requried scans.

I'll use any mods that can make the mission architecture as near future real-ish-tic as possible, some kind of retro 1970s near future. For example I'll use Deadly Reentry and TACLS.

A lot of the fun is in figuring out how to achieve the goals, so I plan to post the development process of the mission plan and the vehicles and engineering required to achieve the plan, and then finally the flights themselves.

[s1l3nt_c0y0t3]

What if you use a SSTO to launch all your equipment? Do you still need to use the figures listed in the OP?

[Death Engineering]

What if you use a SSTO to launch all your equipment? Do you still need to use the figures listed in the OP?

From an earlier reply to this question by the OP:

"Anything other than crew to LKO, no matter how small it is, must be launched with your standard (cargo) lifter. If that lifter happens to be a (fully reusable) SSTO it will be considered a reusable lifter but doesn't get any additional bonus."

[Death Engineering]

It's been over six months since I started moving on this challenge with the Better Than Starting Manned game overhaul mod. Since then, updates to KSP and BTSM mean that I can play it in KSP 0.90, which is awesome. Along with the BTSM mod, I'll also be using Kerbal Attachment System (for resource transfer only), Kerbal Alarm Clock and some graphics mods. There are no 'engineering' assist or flight assist mods which provide control, other than stock SAS.

The challenge's primary goal of sustaining four kerbals on Duna under the restriction of BTSM's parts suggests that a top-ranking score in the challenge is out of the question. The life-support in BTSM is heavy, there are fewer rocket and fuel tanks parts to work with, and background processing of resources means there is nowhere to hide. Setting up a resource supply infrastructure around both Kerbin and Duna is going to be critical, and building in margins for error will include a hierarchy of mission milestone failures in order to build in safety margins for the crew.

In keeping with the spirit of this challenge, BTSM makes sense as it includes its own proprietary life support and resource harvesting. It is also integrated with the Deadly Re-entry mod, providing some very real risks with aerocapturing and landing. However, while a brilliant mod, BTSM does not really highlight multi-crew missions; providing life-support and safe travel for a group of four brave kerbalnauts is going to be a real challenge.

This post introduces the primary lifter for the challenge, with a nominal payload to LKO 36t. Since the two reusable LFO powered boosters are recovered at KSC by passive parachute landing and recover 140t of the 280t lifter mass, the turnaround time on the lifter is 54 days. Initially, it seemed a bit too easy to recover the boosters during testing, but the DRE mod is working and at least 10 tests have returned 100% of the two booster stages, despite landing on the engine bells alone.

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[table=width: 100%, align: left]

[tr]

[td]

Death Engineering BTSM-36 Lifter

Lifter mass on pad: 280t

Recovered lifter mass: 140t

Time between launches: 54 days

Booster recovery: Passive chute, jettisoned <9km

[/td]

[td]

[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]

Prototype Crew module for Kerbin-Duna shuttle

Max crew: 4

Life support (max crew): 23 days

Life support with propulsion module docked: 70 days/4 crew

Primary use: Crew module for Kerbin-Duna shuttle

Backup use: Space station module

[/td]

[td]

[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]

Prototype Twin Nerva Propulsion Module

Autonomous deep space booster

Integrated life support: 185 Kerbal days

Primary use: Propulsion module for Kerbin-Duna shuttle

Backup use: Life support/payload delivery to Duna orbit (max 42t)

[/td]

[td]

[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

---

Launch Schedule (first 500 days):

10 Duna Surface Support Module (DSM-1)

--> 54 DSM-1 to Duna (arrive day 118)

64 Crew module for Kerbin-Duna Shuttle (KDS-4)

118 Propulsion module for KDS-4

172 Duna Landing Module (DLM-4)

226 Duna Station module (DS-1/Propulsion)

\\\ 280 Failure mode branch 1

280 Duna Station module (DS-2)

--> 283 Four crew on KDS-4 and Duna Station modules/DLM-4 to Duna (arrive day 347)

334 Duna Surface Support Module (DSM-2)

388 Duna Station module (DS-3)

442 Duna Station module (DS-4/Propulsion)

\\\ 496 Failure mode branch 2

496 Kerbin Atmosphere Processing Unit module (KAPU-1)

--> 511 Duna Station modules and DSM-2 to Duna (arrive day 575)

Failure mode branch 1: If any of the previous missions fail, this launch will be it's backup. Duna Station module (DS-2) will be launched on day 388, supplanting DS-3.

Failure mode branch 2: If DSM-2, DS-3 or DS-4 fails, this launch will be it's backup. KAPU-1 will be launched on a later mission.

Test Launch and Booster Recovery

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[DBowman]

Looking good, I love those inflatable heat shields!

Are you doing this in career mode? or BTM sandbox?

On your KDS-4 what part are the cupolas mounted on? is that A BTM part?

[Death Engineering]

Looking good, I love those inflatable heat shields!

Are you doing this in career mode? or BTM sandbox?

On your KDS-4 what part are the cupolas mounted on? is that A BTM part?

Yep, the DRE parts are great. The part under the Cupola is the Au-2-H2O Life Support Recycling Unit and indeed is a part from BTSM. It decreases life support consumption by 80% but is quite heavy (2.5t) and consumes a lot of EC. Running the Cupola and the Au-2-H2O takes 9.9EC/min.

I'm playing in a 'hacked' Career mode BTSM (edited SC points and funds). I wanted to track the science gained, biomes visited etc., and that is the only way to make it happen and start on day 10 in the game.

BTW, your effort in the challenge to get a whole neighbourhood of kerbals out there is awesome. I had a good time reading your mission reports when work was quiet this week and definitely inspired me to get a working effort going again on this challenge.

gl!

[DBowman]

Those ion engines are magic, painful but magic.

:D Au-2-H20 - they are taking the .... ( Au = gold[en ...] ):D

I had a query around Crew Safety. I just finished doing a proof of concept for a 75t launcher and suddenly thought 'oh no does it also need to 'get up' with a 20% deltaV loss?'. I just re-read the challenge rules and I guess not as it's going to be un-crewed. Also there is no point larding on the deltaV for the launcher since they have plenty of experience of KSC2LKO. Seem the right approach?

I'm very interested in in-situ resources, like for Mars Direct, does BTSM include something like that? I didn't see good docs with the mod (but haven't searched too hard yet).

[Death Engineering]

Those ion engines are magic, painful but magic.

:D Au-2-H20 - they are taking the .... ( Au = gold[en ...] ):D

I had a query around Crew Safety. I just finished doing a proof of concept for a 75t launcher and suddenly thought 'oh no does it also need to 'get up' with a 20% deltaV loss?'. I just re-read the challenge rules and I guess not as it's going to be un-crewed. Also there is no point larding on the deltaV for the launcher since they have plenty of experience of KSC2LKO. Seem the right approach?

I'm very interested in in-situ resources, like for Mars Direct, does BTSM include something like that? I didn't see good docs with the mod (but haven't searched too hard yet).

I've never used ion propulsion for anything more than command-seat hoppers on low-grav bodies.. burn soooo lonnnng.. Au-2-H20 is aptly named as, in space, it's not gold that is of great value but electricity, since solar panels only work at about 60% efficiency around Duna.

Yeah, I read the rules for redundancy and crew safety as mostly focused on backup hardware and life support. No crew will be launched using my primary 'mission' lifter. The crew shuttle to LKO is wide open.

There are parts in BTSM for in-situ resource harvesting. Self-sustaining life-support on Duna for four crew however would require delivering ~140t of hardware to the surface (9 processors x 15t + support hardware).. so that's out. Instead, I'll be sending re-supply missions for the bulk of LS and generating the return LS and fuel for the Duna-> Kerbin flight in Duna orbit. Around day 550, I'll start setting up LS/fuel harvesting around Kerbin for the sustainable component of the challenge.

[DBowman]

I added the first entry to my "Deeply Duna" Mission Report: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/113541-Deeply-Duna-a-Duna-Permanent-Outpost-Mission-Architecture-Challenge-Mission-Report?p=1803870#post1803870

The summary is that I've settled on a 75 ton to LKO Kerbin Launch Vehicle - KLV-75.

• For Mission Robustness & Crew Safety I require being able to guarantee transfer of life support to Dunauts on every Hohmann window even if a single KLV fails.
  
• For fly-ability and ease of packing payload I want to maximize the KLV payload.
  
• I'm ignoring any optimization available by trickily matching start time and first Hohmann window or 1000 day end of challenge cut-off. I'm treating the program as permanent, Duna in perpetuity.
  

I've got a proof of concept for the launcher:

Note:

• Two Mainsail cluster, 6 total.
  
• Asparagus staging.
  
• Nice TWR on all stages.
  
• Some excess deltaV to support adding recovery hardware.
  
• My first transfer will be limited to 75 tons to establish the program on Duna.
  
• 45 Earth Days are 'wasted' before the first KD transfer window. This is 20% of the period between transfers, so it's significant, but I'm not optimizing for the start / end of the challenge.
  

I'm sure I can make it re-usable etc so I'm going to leave it as a proof for now and move onto mission planning the KLV payloads; Duna Kerbin Xfer Vehicle, and Duna payloads. I'm targeting: emergency Duna-Kerbin return (requires also Duna ascent), scan-sat survey to prep for Duna descent, sat comms network, Mars Direct style fuel generation on Duna surface, Duna Space Center (Remote Tech 'like'), Mobile Duna Manned Science Teams, & Duna Unmanned Science Thingies.

Edited March 25, 2015 by DBowman

[vosechu]

I looked through the threads since sturmstiger stopped updating and found that there were really not a lot of more completions. I completed, but there's still a lot of work to be done.

So I wanted to start a new thread of people I've seen recently in some stage of development:

24.MathigNihilcehk - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/31510-Duna-Permanent-Outpost-Mission-Architecture-Challenge?p=1668004&viewfull=1#post1668004

25.Death Engineering's 2nd Entry - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/31510-Duna-Permanent-Outpost-Mission-Architecture-Challenge?p=1799836&viewfull=1#post1799836

31.borisperrons' 2nd Entry - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/31510-Duna-Permanent-Outpost-Mission-Architecture-Challenge?p=927111&viewfull=1#post927111

32.YarTheBug - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/31510-Duna-Permanent-Outpost-Mission-Architecture-Challenge?p=908954&viewfull=1#post908954

33.Progressm - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/31510-Duna-Permanent-Outpost-Mission-Architecture-Challenge?p=1497424&viewfull=1#post1497424

34.vosechu (finished!) - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/31510-Duna-Permanent-Outpost-Mission-Architecture-Challenge?p=1754124&viewfull=1#post1754124

35.DBowman - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/31510-Duna-Permanent-Outpost-Mission-Architecture-Challenge?p=1795818&viewfull=1#post1795818

36.Jonboy - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/31510-Duna-Permanent-Outpost-Mission-Architecture-Challenge?p=1780379&viewfull=1#post1780379

Hopefully we can all get it done and feel proud! When we see some more completions we can ask NathanKell to update the OP with the new results.

[DBowman]

I came across this today http://www.astronautix.com/craft/marpost.htm it has a summary of lots of proposed Mars missions. Including the sov Marpost "... powered to and from Mars by matrices of hundreds of solar-powered ion thrusters using xenon as propellant" - woot go Ion.

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Also - thanks vosechu for the good work on putting together a summary of the current works in progress!

[vosechu]

Such a good idea DBowman! I don't know if these have already been posted, but they've been really inspiring to me:

NASA DRA5 - http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/373665main_NASA-SP-2009-566.pdf

NASA DRA5 Addendum - http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/373667main_NASA-SP-2009-566-ADD.pdf

Mars One Feasibility Analysis - http://web.mit.edu/sydneydo/Public/Mars%20One%20Feasibility%20Analysis%20IAC14.pdf

Mars Direct Intro - http://www.nss.org/settlement/mars/zubrin-promise.html

Mars Direct Slides - http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/376589main_04%20-%20Mars%20Direct%20Power%20Point-7-30-09.pdf