Duna Permanent Outpost Mission Architecture Challenge

[Patupi]

Isn't that always the way with new designs? I hope no Kerbals were harmed in the making of those pictures?

I had some serious issues with my BHL launchers, but they were all probe controlled. Right now my issue is trying to make the main body re-entry with a re-entry heat shield. The 1st stage boosters are less than 50% of the mass so I have to get the second stage to re-enter (which it does, but not with a heat shield at present) successfully. Right now I'm toying with mounting a disposable heat shield on top, behind the payload, disconnect at orbit and reconnect behind the ship for re-entry. The weight balance of the ship would mean it would have to be behind the ship on re-entry, and you can't fire boosters through a shield, so there needs to be some sort of deployment. It's either that or use the inflatable heatshields I've seen around. That's in Deadly Re-entry right?

[Death Engineering]

My DHV-1 LV in it's testing phase...

+1 on the Falcon 9 Heavy look!

[Patupi]

One query, does the 'Crew shuttle' you have to hand only supply crew? I've wondered about launching the main IP craft fuel-less then refueling them in orbit. I'm assuming that would go against the spirit of the challenge but I thought I'd ask.

Plus, I've just tried using the Procedural Fairings mod and I do like it. I'll likely be using that to house launched payloads. You do seem to need to brace them quite a bit, especially with tall payloads that wobble. Time warp is not friendly to these!

[sturmstiger]

I had some serious issues with my BHL launchers, but they were all probe controlled. Right now my issue is trying to make the main body re-entry with a re-entry heat shield. The 1st stage boosters are less than 50% of the mass so I have to get the second stage to re-enter (which it does, but not with a heat shield at present) successfully. Right now I'm toying with mounting a disposable heat shield on top, behind the payload, disconnect at orbit and reconnect behind the ship for re-entry. The weight balance of the ship would mean it would have to be behind the ship on re-entry, and you can't fire boosters through a shield, so there needs to be some sort of deployment. It's either that or use the inflatable heatshields I've seen around. That's in Deadly Re-entry right?

Just like IRL reuse of the upper-stage won't be easy, so that's were you get to be creative! Also, I'm surprised your lower stage weight is less than 50% of full stack launch weight. If you're flying a conventional rocket launching profile, stages expended below maybe 25km (which normally account for the majority of the launch mass) would unlikely get "hot" enough for re-entry effects in stock game,

One query, does the 'Crew shuttle' you have to hand only supply crew? I've wondered about launching the main IP craft fuel-less then refueling them in orbit. I'm assuming that would go against the spirit of the challenge but I thought I'd ask.

Unfortunately you won't be able to anything other than crew transfer with the "free" shuttle. Think of it as having the same capability as a Soyuz for an ISS crew rotation mission.

[Patupi]

Just like IRL reuse of the upper-stage won't be easy, so that's were you get to be creative! Also, I'm surprised your lower stage weight is less than 50% of full stack launch weight. If you're flying a conventional rocket launching profile, stages expended below maybe 25km (which normally account for the majority of the launch mass) would unlikely get "hot" enough for re-entry effects in stock game,

The lower stages I set to drop before the gravity turn so they would land back at KSC for ease of recovery. Hopefully I can land the main section close to KSC too. My aimed landing is generally pretty good (even without mechjeb), but not so good in atmosphere. I've a few known phase angle starts, with known orbit alts that I can reliably get fairly close by eyeballing it on re-entry. Outside of thse it's often guesswork as to how much the re-entry will slow my craft and affect the landing zone.

Unfortunately you won't be able to anything other than crew transfer with the "free" shuttle. Think of it as having the same capability as a Soyuz for an ISS crew rotation mission.

Yeah, I thought so. Just wanted to check. On a similar note I'm pretty sure with the launch payload I'll have, plus the launch windows to Duna, that multiple launches with longer waits between won't be very helpful. Likely I'll be launching and waiting (with no crew) in orbit with ships anyway, so most missions will eventually end up with several launched at any given time. Have to see how the mission planning goes.

[sturmstiger]

It 's really exciting to see several new entrants to the challenge (Swifty, Death Engineering, Patupi & Psycho529) and great progress from other entrants (Speeding Mullet) . Once 0.21 stabilizes I might get back to this as well by launching my own (redesigned) missions. Also from now on I'm going to list all entries, completely or not, on the first post to keep track of their progress. Below is latest list (ordered by time of first post):

1. NeilC: Lifter, Interplanetary Tug & Mobile Hab Design

2. Wait, Was That Important?: Mission Concept, Lifter Design

3. misanthropia66: Delivery / Return Vehicle + Research / Hab Module Design, videos from first (test?) missions

4. Rex_Reach: Mobile Hab Design [iNACTIVE?]

5. Justy: Mission Concepts from 2 Kermunists design teams. Also great stories from the Kermunists!

6. Highlad + FallingIntoBlack: Mission Concept & Schedule [iNACTIVE?]

7. meyst: Cargo Lifter & Crew Lifter Design [iNACTIVE?]

8. TheBobWiley: Mission Concept, Lifter, Interplanetary Tug, Interplanetary Service & Hab, and DDAV Design

9. Speeding Mullet: Mission Concepts & Schedule, plus designs for the RLV, IPTSP, DAVSP, HSM, KDSSDEV, KDCMSSDEV, KDCHLRDEV and KDSSSMSDEV.

10.vidboi: Mission Concepts & Schedule, Launch Vehicle, Phase 1 & 2 (until ~Day 280) spacecrafts & payloads designs [iNACTIVE?]

11.Syhrus: Mission Concepts, Schedule and Designs of all hardware elements. First completed entry! Also looking at alternate plans.

12.Swifty: Missions launched but all images of the missions were lost. Plan & schedule were recovered though.

13.Death Engineering: Missions schedule, plus rigourous testing of many missions hardware.

14.Patupi: At early mission design phase.

15.Psycho529: At LV testing phase.

[NeilC]

Trying to find time to get back on this, I've made progress since my last post but I'm not sure it's in a direction I'm happy with.

I want to continue on 20.2 for a while until mods catch up, so hopefully Steam will respect my wishes...

[Patupi]

OK, got some quick picks of the current 'Bulbous Heavy Launcher' (or 'Bulbous Heavy Lifter', depending on which engineer you talk to. Some heated debates in the design breakroom I can tell you!) which can currently not quite lift an orange tank up, shown as payload with Procedural Fairing on.

(Edit. One thing I didn't know. It's important in what order you mount fuel lines. I removed one and replaced it and it completely messed up my fuel feeds for the first stage! had to remove another one and get the order right. Live and learn eh?)

Launch:

Boosters landing (these had a probe body added temporarily so I could check they landed OK. Removed later)

And yes, they land fine

Finally the main ship landing... though not quite at KSC. It came down maybe 40km away. Hopefully I'll do better next time. Still haven't tried the heat shield yet.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Patupi

[GabrielG.A.B.Fonseca]

Sturmstiger, you lay before me a challenge truly hard to complete. And I would never let something like this uncompleted! I'll give this a try.

[Patupi]

OK, this isn't a full mission plan, but I couldn't resist writing this out as I laid out what I was going to do. As Pat says, this is subject to change

A dim conference room scene flickers on a monitor as Television crews bring their systems online, banks of lights blinking on as the podium is coated in illuminance. The lights show a small group of well dressed Kerbals standing on the far side of the podium, and one serious, bearded Kerbal steps forwards as the camera lights blink green.

"Greetings." He intones in a slightly gravely voice "My name Pat Kerman, head of Patupi Enterprises. We are proud to announce that formal notification has been received of KSC's acceptance of our company in regards to the proposed Duna Outpost mission assembly."

Several of the Kerbals behind him straighten ties or fidget with pens or calculators, obviously not used to media broadcasts.

"We have outlined a preliminary plan," Pat continues, "which the mission planning at the space center has currently agreed to. Our new 'Bulbous Heavy Lifter'..."

Pat's speech is broken as one of the Kerbals behind him jumps in the air in glee, pumping his fist upwards and then pointing both hands at one of his compatriots while making inane 'Na na na nah!' noises and saying 'Lifter! HA!' . His companion seems to sulk.

The excited Kerbal suddenly stops as he sees the cameras and Pat all focused on him. With a weak, strained grin he slinks back, attempting to hide behind another of his fellow engineers.

"Ahem. As I was saying the new Bulbous Heavy Launcher," and the previous excuberant kerbal slumps while his compatriot grins, though he maintains his composure, "has been chosen as the primary launch vehicle for the mission. Our preliminary plan will only be lightly outlined today as it may undergo change over the course of the next few weeks."

With a click the lights dim and a slide illuminates the wall behind Pat with a view of Duna and below it a series of boxes, some of which have small views of space vehicles, and some are empty. The left box is highlighted with a detailed vehicle in it.

"Initially we will launch a single payload, comprising of a Duna Insertion vehicle," a snigger at the word insertion draws a glare from Pat, but he lets it slide, "a small station to be deployed in low Duna orbit, and a series of satellites. These satellites will orbit Duna at close orbit and Dunastationary orbit to give complete communications coverage for future missions and to scan the planet for Kethane deposits."

He presses a button and the next slide comes up with the following box highlighted, but this one is a description as the vessel hasn't been designed yet.

"Next will follow a scouting mission. Built from several BHL launches this vessel will carry four Kerbals to Duna along with a small Kethane mining rover to manage small fueling needs, a full two Kerbal Lander and an Emergency Lift Vessel that can launch four Kerbals on short term life support and rendezvous with the station. At this point Kerbals will not stay on the planet long, instead staying on the orbiting station. The mining rover will operate remotely during orbital stays."

"The next phase will send a more extensive mining system with Kethane shuttle or shuttles, as well as a fully equipped base for long term Duna surface habitation. Finally, a second interplanetary transport capable of ferrying Kerbals will be sent along with more crew and shuttling of the crew between Kerbin and Duna can begin."

The slideshow finished and the lights came back up again.

"At present we have not finalized these parameters and some of the missions may become combined, but this represents our current mission objectives. I'm afraid there will be no questions at this time. Tomorrow will be a Q&A session in the Ark Center Auditorium."

The team followed Pat out, 'Lifter' sullenly following on, while 'Launcher' poked him in the back repeatedly when Pat wasn't looking.

The monitor display flickers then greys out as the cameras die and the show is over.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Patupi

[Death Engineering]

Duna Space Program - Mission Log 2

The Kerbal engineers worked frantically through the night studying original design parameters and test results for the Duna Space Program's Antares lifter family in order to rebuild them in the new and improved Vehicle Assembly Building. Having developed the Antares Neutron heavy lifter in the old VAB, the design team were extremely happy about the ceiling in the VAB being raised - now they could actually work on the rocket with the payload attached without having to crawl into the subfloor!

After already performing static engine tests on the Alpha, Electron and Proton configurations of the Antares lifter, the only test launch would be using the giant Antares Neutron booster. While sitting around the office late last night sipping on Koors Lite ('lite' because kerbals can't hold their alkohol), the engineering team decided to try strapping some RACC SRB's to it "because we have some in the shed out back".

Jebediah was selected as the test pilot for the launch and was happy to be a part of it. Of course, this is because he was not present during the alkolhol infused SRB decision making. As he climbed aboard the tower of rocket fuel with his tiny escape system perched on top, he started to get a little hesitant and had his finger on the 'Abort!' button during the countdown.

7--6--5--3--2--1..

"Hey, where was the '4'?", Jeb asked himself, realizing that this was probably not going to go well.

Less than 100m off the ground, one of the SRB's separated from the booster stage and crashed into the fuel tanks! The rocket shuddered than began to emit fire from all the wrong places.. ABORT! The abort sequence shut down the motors and immediately separated Jebediah from the thundering chaos below him. As his escape rocket accelerated away from the explosions below, he remembered the 6 pack of Koors Lite he left in the engineer's fridge. "Can't wait to crack one of those open after this launch!", he thought.

As he parachuted down to a clearing beside the smouldering rubble remains of the Antares Neutron SRB vehicle, he radioed back to Mission Control, "Thanks for the launch escape system, guys!".

"No problem, Jeb.. and we've got another Neutron booster here for you to try when you get back", Billl replied.

"No way, Bill, its your turn to ride this thing next. I have some Koors Lite that needs drinking!"

"Yeah, Jeb, about that six pack of Koors Lite..."

Jeb Rides the Antares Neutron (until it explodes)

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Duna Space Program Antares Rocket Family

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Edit: After a clarification of the rules, and the release of 0.21, the mission has been redesigned and documented in full here.

Edited July 30, 2013 by Death Engineering

[TheBobWiley]

Was smack in the middle of a complete redesign of my ships (utilizing ioncross because carrying 1000's of units of RCS was just too heavy) when .21 dropped..... starting from scratch and making little progress, does anyone else feel like the new ASAS is useless, my rockets just keep spinning out of control no matter how many sas modules I add. the rockets just wont keep their aim.... plenty of electricity too (also a challenge for me as I use asas almost constantly....)

[Death Engineering]

I think there was a bug in the 0.21.0 update that did not attempt to kill roll. With my smaller rockets this was not apparent but with the big ones, the roll was prohibitively distracting. However, the 0.21.1 patch fixed that. Make sure you have the latest version of 0.21.

[Patupi]

Um, Sturmstiger? I've been struggling to get a re-usable lander for Duna with a heatshield by aligning the engine ports with clipping next to the edge of the shield, but then they are at such an angle that the efficiency is awful! Would you allow rocket nozzles sticking through a heat shield and just say they have some sort of blast shutters on them during descent?

EG:

Edited July 26, 2013 by Patupi

[sturmstiger]

Um, Sturmstiger? I've been struggling to get a re-usable lander for Duna with a heatshield by aligning the engine ports with clipping next to the edge of the shield, but then they are at such an angle that the efficiency is awful! Would you allow rocket nozzles sticking through a heat shield and just say they have some sort of blast shutters on them during descent?

That could work. After all, rocket engine combustion chambers and nozzles are designed to withstand fairly high temperature and pressure. And reentry from low Duna orbit is not that demanding.

[Patupi]

OK, I'll go with that for Duna. BHL testing is complete and the BHL-4 system is finished and ready for use. It does not use a re-entry shield, instead saving fuel from launch to use in retro burn at approximately 35000m during re-entry, along with drogue and normal parachutes.

(EDIT: during tests it was found that if a BHL-4 carries the full 27tons to orbit there is barely enough fuel left for the 35000m re-entry burn. Very slight flickering red around the launcher, but I don't think enough to damage it. May need a paint job after )

BHL-4:

Also, finally, I've got my mission plan ready:

Mods list used for this program. (EDIT: updated Mod list after snafu with Kerbal Engineer)

-Actions on the Fly

-Crew Manifest

-EditorExtensions

*Kerbal Engineer (no longer used. Had KSP crashes related to it )

-IoncrossCrewSupport

-IonHybridElectricPack(mainly for the enlarged solar panels and RTGs. Not using the ion drives from this)

-Procedural Fairings.

-Kethane

-Spherical Fuel Tanks (so far only used one of these tanks on the latest BHL, but the radial mounts are useful)

*Protractor (no longer used. Mechjeb had better data screens.)

-SECS adaptors (creepily similar to what came out with 0.21!)

-SubassemblyManager

-Torque Wheel (though the rotation power was rather high-powered compared to stock. I scaled back kahlzun's rating of 20rot power down to 5. Seems more in keeping with command pods/probe bodies)

-Damn Robotics

-Mechjeb(I'm going to try to keep this without using Ascent guidance, automatic IP guidance or Landing guidance, though I might use the placement maker on the landing pilot as my attempts with precision landing in an atmosphere aren't that good. The BHL can at best get within 24km of KSC when I manually land it)

I'm also considering using Remotetech (not used before) and KAS (used quite a lot). Remotetech might make those satellites useful beyond Kethane scanning, and KAS will make transferring fuel easier. I've done it with docking ports on the ground before, but it's hard to get things right. I've used Brotoro's method of using landing gear to lift a ship up to dock vertically on a planet, but that means adding lateral frames with underslung docking ports on every lander/habitat pod/Kethane miner! KAS is much easier!

Mission planning profile for operation Archimedes (A very famous Kerbal, the first to invent the bathplug!)

Note, the BHL booster system has an official payload of 27tons, and is a completely reusable vessel.

With the payload for the BHL system the booster has a construction timeline of 41 days.

Schedule:

Day 10: BHL 'Alpha 1' launches the Duna Transfer Station, unmanned, to low Kerbin orbit. Estimated payload weight for DTS is 21tons.

Day 51: BHL 'Alpha 2' launches the Trans Duna Insertion Vehicle with Comms/Scan sats docked. TDI will dock with the DTS and align for launch. Estimated payload weight for TDI is 20 tons.

Day 55: DTI boosts out of Kerbin orbit on autopilot/remote guidance. No crew onboard at this time. Station has approximately 300 Kerbal-days of preserved food/air onboard, as well as a life support system. The storage tanks are a backup in case the Ioncross lifesupport system fails.

Day 92 BHL 'Beta 1' launches the first part of the Manned Transfer Vehicle into orbit. Launch is via drone and ship will remain uncrewed until just prior to launch out of Kerbin system. Section one of MTV is likely to be near the max of 27tons. This will be the command, habitat and Lander section.

Day 133 BHL 'Beta 2' launches the second and final part of the MTV into orbit and it then rendezvous with the Command section. This will be the Kethane rover and transfer engines section. Priliminary plans call for only the emergency lander to be sent with the Scout mission. The Primary lander will be sent with the Gamma mission. The rover will be light, a few tons, and be carried down by the emergency lander. Priliminary estimates call for an 18ton Emergency Lander.

The transfer engine 'vehicle' will be usable as a tug later, though likely this first one will stay attached to the scout MTV aslong as no unforseen circumstances occur.

Beta mission will be crewed by four Kerbals, and the vehicle's life support can only just take this. Extra supplies incase the life support fails will be stored on board.

Note, the Scout MTV is now complete, though unmanned, and waiting insertion date of day 283. This leaves three other launches before the launch window in case of failure of a BHL. Nominally both the scout and mining missions could launch at the same time, if nothing goes wrong. The mission plan assumes that only the Scout will launch first however.

Day 174 BHL 'Gamma 1' launches the first section of the Mining MTV into orbit. Command and the first section of the main habitat lander go first. The Duna habitat will be used to maintain crew during the voyage, though it is exessive for this task. Once at Duna the habitats will be able to support both the scout and mining crew for the duration. The orbiting station will still be able to support 4 Kerbals at any time if necessary.

Day 215 BHL 'Gamma 2' launches the second section of the Mining MTV into orbit. This comprises the second Habitat lander and the Kethane mining lander. Some consideration is also being given to sending a small aircraft for scouting duties in this launch or Gamma 3.

Day 256 BHL 'Gamma 3' launches the third section of the Mining MTV into orbit. This completes the mining mission assembly. This is the main booster section and the standard Duna long term lander. Consideration is being given at this time to adding satellites, rovers or an aircraft with the booster at present. Weight considerations will tell if this is feasible.

Day 283 Arrival of crew for the Scout mission, and possibly the Mining mission if all goes well. Launch of both at this time seems possible and will see 8 Kerbals being launched towards Duna.

Day 291 BHL 'Delta 1' launches the first part of the Dedicated Duna Transfer vehicle (Note from Engineer Albright. We are NOT naming this DDT! Come up with another name!) for shuttling crew and supplies back and forth from Duna. Current plans call for a vessel capable of carrying four Kerbals and at least 300 units of supply in addition to life support.

Design work has not progressed to completion of the... Transfer vehicle yet, so it is unknown how many launches it will take to assemble it in orbit. Estimates at least two launches.

Beyond this will be a duplicate of the Gamma mission sending more habitat landers and mining systems to fuel ships, sending orbital kethane storage to dock to the DTS and the possiblity of remote mining on Ike to supply orbital stations and vessels more economically than a Duna based facility. At present Duna mining was chosen for safety reasons, enabling refueling of ground based vehicles in case of emergency launces being needed.

At least two, and most likely three, Transfer vehicles will be built and will then shuttle back and forth from Kerbin to Duna, ferrying cargo and modules. The first Scout Transfer vehicle may be re-used at a later date.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Patupi

[NeilC]

And I'm finally finished!!!!! WOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

The details are all posted here. But I know what you're all waiting for:

SCORE:

Until Day 0500: 11 Launches, 330 tons NIMLKO, Early Mission Value = 7,332 Efficiency = 22.22

Until Day 1000: 22 Launches, 660 tons NIMLKO, Sustained Mission Value = 43,932 Efficiency = 66.56

Mission Execution 0, Crew Mobility 2, Base Mobility 2, Crew Safety 0, Mission Robustness 2, Achievements Score = 6

Mods: Kethane, IonCross, MechJeb, KW Rocketry, Empty Fuel Tanks, Kerbal Alarm Clock, Crew Manifest

Edited July 27, 2013 by NeilC
Brain fart on score - swapped a single module to improve it substantially.

[GabrielG.A.B.Fonseca]

Sturmstiger, sign me in. I've just finished my LV design, and I'm now working on a descent/ascent vehicle design.

[Patupi]

Dang! I was hoping to do without Mechjeb entirely, but now Kerbal Engineer is crashing once ships are docked together in orbit! Is it permissible to use Mechjeb for just data screens?

In addition here's a brief shot of the BHL getting slightly crispy on re-entry. This is the worst point of the entry and doesn't last long.

Also some development shots. I got these into orbit in my test save game (I'm assuming this is a KSC computer simulation basically) and docked before Kerbal Engineer froze up. Reloading didn't help. I'm guessing a conflict between two Kerbal Engineer components on two vessels once docked.

The Heron MTV (Manned Transport Vehicle) with an orbital tug and a Kethane mini rover attached. I'm using Damned robotics to hinge the docking ports to allow connection for refueling right now. Might switch to KAS later if I have problems in testing.

The ELV (Emergency Launch Vehicle) with the MTV main drive section docked. The ELV's fuel tank is hooked up to the MTV as a reserve tank at present. One of the reasons this MTV isn't planned to be a workhorse shuttling between Kerbin and Duna in future, though a fuel tank could be docked later, the fuel line here would be cut once it undocks from the ELV. Thus if it is used again it would likely need multiple burns with fuel transfers in between. Really annoying!

Finally an example of one of these mounted on a BHL-4. Not a pretty sight. You can see why I dubbed this 'Bulbous'! Any with a heat shield in the payload are particularly wide, and awkward to fly on launch.

[NeilC]

Dang! I was hoping to do without Mechjeb entirely, but now Kerbal Engineer is crashing once ships are docked together in orbit! Is it permissible to use Mechjeb for just data screens?

Pretty sure all non-cheating mods are allowed, Patupi. sturmstiger himself uses MechJeb in his entry.

I'm interested to see if sturmstiger still considers Kethane and Ioncross "non-cheating" after seeing my entry.

[Patupi]

I admit I thought of using Kethane like that myself (having already done Minmus Kethane mines and Launchpads before) but wanted to see if I could do this without that. I even wondered about going chemical and having no nukes... Naaah!

Well, currently my mission has multiple safety backups. The ELV does not (as it's an emergency vessel itself... sort of), it only has one engine, but the main Duna shuttle has four and can launch on two engines. The Scout MTV can only fly with all engines, but the plan is that later MTVs, ones that are dedicated as tugs between Kerbin and Duna, will have four engines and can run on two if necessary. Backup lifesupport in case Ioncross fails. Backup station habitat in orbit incase the ground base fails. Sending an uncrewed station and scan sats ahead first to set things up before the crew get there. All these aren't really necessary to do this. Heck, the Scout MTV has the life support it needs without the Duna Transit Station sent ahead. I could have just parked the MTV in orbit as the station. I just wanted to try and make things more or less the way NASA would... well, with a Kerbal twist. I'm even considering making a mission patch for 'Project Archimedes'. We'll see.

(EDIT: I hadn't noticed Sturmstiger had used Mechjeb! Dang. Autopilot too? I guess I misinterpreted 'no cheating mods'. Probably just myself. I started playing KSP without using mechjeb to prove I could and have always considered it cheating... though it doesn't stop me from using it usually! )

(EDIT: looking over other Mission plans I realize I haven't filled it in enough so I'm completing the timetable at least up to day 500. Should post it tomorrow sometime)

Edited July 28, 2013 by Patupi

[TheBobWiley]

Thanks for letting me know about the 12.1 update, downloading it now. I am torn between using kerthane or not. It would make things a lot easier to mine on Duna and therefore carry less fuel from Kerbin to Duna. But I also feel its sort of cheaty (at least compared to real life feasibility). I will probably use it anyway just to have more stuff to do on Duna. So far in my redesign I have the first payload almost complete, it is the first part of my Duna Exploration Vehicle and will house 4 kerbals from to Kerbin to Duna, and then land on the surface and act as the lead car for the eventual DEV. I am also working on building the second car of the DEV, a kerthane miner that is totally self-sufficient in order to haul it out to a dig site and then leave it to work. I am also starting work on a third (science/hab) car for the DEV and a permanent Duna base that is used for long term habitation and as the landing point for the DDAV (duna decent/ascent vehicle). School will be starting up in a few weeks and I hope to work on this more before then. All the other entries look great and can't wait to see more.

[Patupi]

I'm not sure about 'cheaty'. At least one NASA plan for reaching Mars aimed to build fuel at Mars using a core, small fuel starter system sent ahead of a manned mission. I forget what starter was used but it has a reaction with chemicals known to exist in Martian soil to produce fuel on site. The proposed vessel in that plan does not have enough fuel to return home until fuel is made... or actually the unmanned vessel sent ahead makes the fuel before the manned craft arrives so it can refuel on arrival.

[NeilC]

Yeah, I wouldn't call Kethane "cheaty" at all, it's just modeling things that are feasible given current tech but that haven't been done yet. Patupi, are you referring to Mars Direct? That's a pretty well thought out plan that uses in situ resources on Mars to make most of the fuel for an ascent vehicle. It brings 6t of liquid hydrogen to the Martian surface, and then uses 33t of CO2 from the atmosphere to make 39t of CH4 + O2 rocket fuel (methane + liquid oxygen).

[Patupi]

That was it, Mars Direct. I read the details on it a long time ago and I'd forgotten it was using water and CO2 from the air, not reaction with the regolith itself. I modelled my plan on my (poor) recollection of that mission, expanded into multiple launches rather than two or three launches.

Well, here is my 500day plan. I'm still working on the 1000day one. Note that once the mini Kethane miner is up and running I should be able to refuel the satellites in orbit and send any to Ike as need be to scan there. Later plans call for a separate Kethane miner for Ike to refuel orbital hardware. The 'MTV Return Habitat' is just a series of Hitchhiker containers and life support that connect to an MTV drive to ferry crew back from Duna to Kerbin.

One other thing I've left out at present is rovers. The initial K-mini miner is unmanned, though the second full K miner has a lander capsule and life-support for extended stay. It has enough for two Kerbals on short drives, or one on long term missions exploring Duna (not truly safe unless two rovers are going on mission). Other dedicated rovers will go with Odysseys 2 and 3. The Habitat Base Landers are currently planned to have wheels and legs, putting the legs down for landing and to stay in one place, legs up and down on wheels to travel to a new site. It's not planned to have enough dedicated rovers for every Kerbal on Duna, unless you count mobile Hab bases.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Patupi