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[0.20] Deadly Reentry 2.3 - reentry heat, plus thermal and g-force damage to parts

ialdabaoth

By ialdabaoth
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ialdabaoth

ialdabaoth

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Is this playable in combination with FAR now? Before it worked, but it was crazy hard. I mean, not realistic hard like it should, but near on impossible to get anything down without fiddling with the config values.

I'm doing all my testing with FAR installed, so I should hope so.

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Killerblonde

Killerblonde

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Yeah, 45G is a bit absurd. Right now, I'm computing G-force as SQRT(8 * crashTolerance), so you get roughly the following values:


crashTolerance     G-Tolerance
       6                 7
       8                 8
      10                 9
      12                10
      15                11
      18		12
      21                13
      24                14
      28                15
      32                16
      36                17
      40                18
      45                19
      50                20
      55                21
      60                22
      66                23
      72                24
      80                25

Note that these are for G-forces averaged over 1 second, and discarding any spurious spikes.

Even so, the G-Tolerance should have been far exceeded on my pod. Perhaps the way the program averages over 1 second is off then? With glitchy G force readings, I can see how this would be problematic.

EDIT: Just had a thought - once a part exceeds its maximum G force, how quickly is it damaged? This could explain why my pods are surviving very sharp reentry angles, as even though they take absurdly high G's, they don't take them for very long.

Edited by Killerblonde
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gabmaia

gabmaia

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Guys, i think im doing something wrong, i just CANT EXPLODE ANYTHING! Despite of the orbit i try or the >1200 temperatures on fueltanks and nuclear reactors, nothing explode!!!

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ialdabaoth

ialdabaoth

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Even so, the G-Tolerance should have been far exceeded on my pod. Perhaps the way the program averages over 1 second is off then? With glitchy G force readings, I can see how this would be problematic.

EDIT: Just had a thought - once a part exceeds its maximum G force, how quickly is it damaged? This could explain why my pods are surviving very sharp reentry angles, as even though they take absurdly high G's, they don't take them for very long.

That would be it. Your pod reached "serious", right?

Basically, damage is handled as a percentage, with thresholds around 0, 10%, 25%, and 50%. For each multiplier of your G-load that you exceed your max by, you lose 1% per hundredth of a second.

How this breaks down:

Let's say you have a part with a crashTolerance of 45. That means its gTolerance is 19.

If you feel 19 G's, you sustain no damage.

If you feel 23 G's, you sustain 20% damage per second (i.e., 1% per twentieth of a second).

If you feel 28 G's, you sustain almost 50% damage per second (i.e., 1% per fiftieth of a second).

If you feel 38 G's, you sustain 100% damage per second (i.e., 1% damage per hundredth of a second)

Since damage actually goes from 0 to 1.0, the formula is 

damage += (1 - geeForce / tolerance) * deltaTime;

35 G's for over half a second will be enough to cause Serious damage, since the tolerance will be lowering as the damage goes up - but it shouldn't destroy it completely. 35 G's for over a second will definitely do it though.

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ialdabaoth

ialdabaoth

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I think you should add the Module Manager dll to the zip file.

Wait, it isn't in the zip file? CRAP. That would be why some people are having weird issues.

EDIT: Fixed now. If nothing seemed to be working, try reinstalling.

Edited by ialdabaoth
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Killerblonde

Killerblonde

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That would be it. Your pod reached "serious", right?

I think so. It was the damage marker just before the last one before it dies, (serious I think.)

At this point, I think it's just down to adjusting a few numbers to make high G forces via ridiculous reentry angles "deadly". The pod test I was referencing had the apoapsis out at 70 Mm, and a completely vertical descent (periapsis at the center of Kerbin) - that shouldn't be survivable.

Edited by Killerblonde
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ialdabaoth

ialdabaoth

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I think so. It was the damage marker just before the last one before it dies, (serious I think.)

At this point, I think it's just down to adjusting a few numbers to make high G forces via ridiculous reentry angles "deadly". The pod test I was referencing had the apoapsis out at 70 Mm, and a completely vertical descent (periapsis at the center of Kerbin) - that shouldn't be survivable.

Yeah, every test I've made with those parameters died spectacularly. What was your ship?

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Killerblonde

Killerblonde

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Yeah, every test I've made with those parameters died spectacularly. What was your ship?

Strange. Just a simple 1 man ship that uses a few mod parts (stock expansion pack) to get into orbit, but the reentering part is a 1 man pod with a jr. docking port on top and 2 radial parachutes on the sides, (which need a smaller counterpart IMO.)

I'm also not using FAR. Could this explain our discrepancy? And on a similar note, should I be for this mod to function properly?

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ialdabaoth

ialdabaoth

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Strange. Just a simple 1 man ship that uses a few mod parts (stock expansion pack) to get into orbit, but the reentering part is a 1 man pod with a jr. docking port on top and 2 radial parachutes on the sides, (which need a smaller counterpart IMO.)

I'm also not using FAR. Could this explain our discrepancy? And on a similar note, should I be for this mod to function properly?

That's probably it, yeah. For awhile I was dual-testing with FAR and without, but at a certain point I gave up - I'm not sure why you'd want realistic reentry without realistic aerodynamics, anyway.

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Killerblonde

Killerblonde

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That's probably it, yeah. For awhile I was dual-testing with FAR and without, but at a certain point I gave up - I'm not sure why you'd want realistic reentry without realistic aerodynamics, anyway.

Excellent point. I think I'll re install FAR again, although to be fair, you might want to say that it's strongly recommended to use your mod alongside FAR.

The only thing I have against FAR is the fact that it seems to make rockets too easy after having become experienced with standard KSP aerodynamics.

I'll load up FAR, do a few tests, and return with the results in a few minutes.

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Killerblonde

Killerblonde

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Excellent point. I think I'll re install FAR again, although to be fair, you might want to say that it's strongly recommended to use your mod alongside FAR.

The only thing I have against FAR is the fact that it seems to make rockets too easy after having become experienced with standard KSP aerodynamics.

I'll load up FAR, do a few tests, and return with the results in a few minutes.

Okay, something is still broken. With FAR, I still survived a ridiculous vertical reentry with 45 G's.

Here is the album of my test flight, with a bonus pic of a sexy decoupling: http://imgur.com/a/4vLAP

The sepratrons that died because of G forcing was just the escape tower when I jettisoned it.

(I hope I'm not breaking forum rules by linking to imgur... seemed like the easiest way to do this.)

EDIT: I tried again with a mark1-2 pod in a different ship, still with FAR. Came down and took 61 G's. No damage at all. I died when I splashed down because I didn't have enough time to even open my chutes.

Edited by Killerblonde
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Insignus

Insignus

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TBH, and no offense, I'm not sure why this is a mod.

I mean, seriously, was it really that hard to conceive of and include this exact functionality when the base code was being written? It would make a great sort of "hardmode" option you could tick off.

That said, it is a absolutely wonderful mod. As an orbiter veteran, I can say that you are fairly spot on with this. If you want to improve it, you might get with the Mechjeb folks and write a re-entry angle predictor window for mechjeb.

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rkman

rkman

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Twenty percent? I'm running right now, and I can stay consistently at seventy five percent with no problems.

I realized it's probably due to the fact that i had a eight engine cluster around the mainsail.

For now i worked around it by editing some mainsail properties in deadlyreentry.cfg.

I've also increased heatMultiplier and temperatureExponent to compensate for what turns out to be the fact that you have tuned this mod to FAR.

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ialdabaoth

ialdabaoth

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I realized it's probably due to the fact that i had a eight engine cluster around the mainsail.

For now i worked around it by editing some mainsail properties in deadlyreentry.cfg.

I've also increased heatMultiplier and temperatureExponent to compensate for what turns out to be the fact that you have tuned this mod to FAR.

*nod* I should probably release the cfg file to be tweaked for non-FAR, and then a separate cfg file to bring it in line with FAR.

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ialdabaoth

ialdabaoth

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okay, I'm gettin damage on my mainsail while I launch, was that supposed to happen? I'm not getting above 3 Gs...

Are you redlining it? Redlining an engine for extended periods wears it out.

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gabmaia

gabmaia

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Are you redlining it? Redlining an engine for extended periods wears it out.

Yup, didn't know that. By redlining you mean "almost overheating" or just making the overheat bar appear

damn you mech jeb.... Does anyone know how to change the max temperature for mechjeb's auto throttle?

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ialdabaoth

ialdabaoth

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If the overheat bar is less than halfway, you're clear. Once the overheat bar reaches halfway full, you start taking some damage. Not much, but some; it will accumulate over time until the engine explodes.

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KhaosCorp

KhaosCorp

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Yup, didn't know that. By redlining you mean "almost overheating" or just making the overheat bar appear

damn you mech jeb.... Does anyone know how to change the max temperature for mechjeb's auto throttle?

don't think there is, MechJeb will keep it from over heating, but he really rides the line, if your using this mod I wouldn't let MJ work the gas pedal

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