phoenix_ca Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 7 hours ago, Gaiiden said: I couldn't even begin to guess at a suitable number and, despite the trouble, it'll be worth it to break off any hardcoded amount if you're really going to put into effect the better resource tracking code. Yea, you'll need a new window for adding/removing resources (that would let you set initial mass, depletion rate and conversion rate) and the Initial State window will look a bit lopsided with only the Dry Mass on the right (unless you want to put it under or atop the orbital data), but for the state log you can either remove the resource masses entirely and just show the Dry/Total mass or in the resources window have checkmarks that let ppl choose up to 3 of their created resources to display in the state dialog. The rest could be moved to the tooltip or add a right-click option that pulls up a separate resource mass dialog. Hrm, in my assumption of how the resources would be defined I've overlooked how depletion/conversion might change over time. The only way that comes to mind to affect this would be a new State event that lets you select a resource from a dropdown list and reset its depletion/conversion rates at that point in the script? (example would be picking up a third crew member when the mission started with 2) - or maybe re-purpose the Mass Dump event, actually I think Arrowstar was saying earlier that for some specific mathematical reason the resources set had to be static. I might've interpreted that wrong though. As for consumption rates, keep a constant rate during a Coast, methinks (because if you're doing a rendezvous in-between you're probably going to use the tool to plan that too), and then perhaps just require the user to add a Mass Dump before the next maneuver, since that's when it matters. For convenience it might be nice if the Mass Dump event looked at the closest previous Coast and provided a button that would estimate the consumption of resources based on the time between the Mass Dump and the end of the previous Coast. You'll already have the consumption rate data and which resources were set once you look at the previous Coast event. Perhaps something to add to the respective maneuver UIs to help prevent user errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phineas Freak Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 @Arrowstari may sound stupid but how do i setup/use the "Launch Trajectory Analysis" tool? Currently i have it as unavailable (greyed - out). Or, if it helps, how can i calculate easily direct - ascent windows and trajectories? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Kerman Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 5 hours ago, Phineas Freak said: @Arrowstari may sound stupid but how do i setup/use the "Launch Trajectory Analysis" tool? Currently i have it as unavailable (greyed - out). Or, if it helps, how can i calculate easily direct - ascent windows and trajectories? Experimental unfinished feature that is completely disabled until Arrowstar gets back to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phineas Freak Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 36 minutes ago, Gaiiden said: Experimental unfinished feature Damn...sounded like a fun tool to use . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Kerman Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 @Arrowstar - small issue here? I always thought the data point chosen was the optimal departure date, but it doesn't match up with what is shown in the output window and what is used for the departure burn computation. This was created with synodic period set to 5 using this bodies.ini file Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrowstar Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 16 hours ago, phoenix_ca said: I think Arrowstar was saying earlier that for some specific mathematical reason the resources set had to be static. I might've interpreted that wrong though. As for consumption rates, keep a constant rate during a Coast, methinks (because if you're doing a rendezvous in-between you're probably going to use the tool to plan that too), and then perhaps just require the user to add a Mass Dump before the next maneuver, since that's when it matters. For convenience it might be nice if the Mass Dump event looked at the closest previous Coast and provided a button that would estimate the consumption of resources based on the time between the Mass Dump and the end of the previous Coast. You'll already have the consumption rate data and which resources were set once you look at the previous Coast event. Perhaps something to add to the respective maneuver UIs to help prevent user errors. The issue is more one of data type than mathematical. Right now I use a matrix of 13 columns to represent the state of the spacecraft at various points in time, with each row of the matrix being a separate time. The number of rows per coast is set via Script -> Execution Settings -> Set Num. State Log Entries Per Coast or something like that, and defaults to 1000. The problem is that, to add more resources, I need to change the number of columns in this matrix. Anywhere in the code that relies on this matrix being a certain size will therefore need to be updated. It won't be a small task. I'm a bit confused regarding the talk of the mass dump stuff. Why would this be necessary? 3 hours ago, Phineas Freak said: Damn...sounded like a fun tool to use . To be honest, it never worked very well. I may not keep it around in the future if I can't get it to work decently. It's a great idea, but somewhat flawed sadly. 2 hours ago, Gaiiden said: @Arrowstar - small issue here? I always thought the data point chosen was the optimal departure date, but it doesn't match up with what is shown in the output window and what is used for the departure burn computation. This was created with synodic period set to 5 using this bodies.ini file The output window shows the optimal departure based on a run of an optimizer. Because you have so many launch windows in your plot, if the optimizer manages to get away from the original starting point, it'll start looking for a new minimum, and that may not be the point shown in the tool tip. Note that the point in the tooltip is just the lowest value of the grid plotted, but it may not be the smallest value in actuality with the optimizer run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenix_ca Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 3 hours ago, Arrowstar said: I'm a bit confused regarding the talk of the mass dump stuff. Why would this be necessary? Not necessary. At all. I'm looking at that again and I think it was just tired ramblings. If I remember what I was actually thinking at the time I'll let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldmine48 Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 @Arrowstar Hi. Really cool mod! I've got it working really well in stock KSP but I'm having a lot of difficulty getting it to work in RSS/RO. The main problem I think being that the position of the bodies are wrong when I import them into a bodies.ini file. The maneuvers outputted from for example the Rendezvous Maneuver Sequencer to get from LEO to the Moon seem sensible in terms of Delta-v and direction(prograde,radial,normal numbers) but in the visualizer the Moon's position at maneuver execution and at intercept don't match the positions in-game and so when I upload directly to the game(or upload after optimization) it's way off. Could this be because of the weird initial epoch number(-31542641.784 secs) assigned to all of the bodies by the RSS mod or am I just missing a step? Could you please just briefly describe the procedure for getting the mod to work with RSS/RO as well? Thanks again, really great mod. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrowstar Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, phoenix_ca said: Not necessary. At all. I'm looking at that again and I think it was just tired ramblings. If I remember what I was actually thinking at the time I'll let you know. No worries, it happens lol. ----------------------------------------------------- Alright everyone, I have the second pre-release of KSP Trajectory Optimization Tool v1.5.5. Here are the changes: Fixed issue with starting parallel pool in Mission Architect (matlabpool -> parpool) Added ability to remove mass at a constant rate from spacecraft during coasts Added ability to rename propellant types Mass dump GUI now shows fuel type being dumped for delta-v dump DV maneuvers now have a line color for plotting similar to coasts The critical change this release is shown in red, the ability to remove mass during coasts. This feature also encompasses the ability to convert some of the expelled mass into other resource types. Please note, this whole feature is HIGHLY EXPERIMENTAL. I've tested it myself but I haven't had a chance to really try to break it (that's what you folks are for lol). I would ask everyone to give it a whirl and please let me know A) what you like and dislike, and B) what breaks, if anything. In the case of the latter, please do provide a copy of the log output and instructions on how to reproduce. Here's the download link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29126891/KSPTOT_v155_prerelease2.zip Finally, I am working on finishing up the new tutorial. It's almost done, and as soon as it is, I will place it with the current KSPTOT release and let everyone know. Edited June 13, 2016 by Arrowstar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Kerman Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, Arrowstar said: Note that the point in the tooltip is just the lowest value of the grid plotted, but it may not be the smallest value in actuality oh yea, did not consider this. Understood. Did a brief look at the new features and seems straightforward in understanding how to use it. How does this affect pulling mass data from the game though? Will it attempt to look for a resource name that matches the one you give it? Edited June 13, 2016 by Gaiiden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrowstar Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 Just now, Gaiiden said: Did a brief look at the new features and seems straightforward in understanding how to use it. How does this affect pulling mass data from the game though? Will it attempt to look for a resource name that matches the one you give it? The functionality remains unchanged. The fuel and oxidizer will be imported into the first resource slot, monoprop into the second, and xenon into the third as before. It will not attempt to use the resource names provided as of now, though maybe that's an interesting upgrade for the future. Thanks for the suggestion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrowstar Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 1 hour ago, goldmine48 said: @Arrowstar Hi. Really cool mod! I've got it working really well in stock KSP but I'm having a lot of difficulty getting it to work in RSS/RO. The main problem I think being that the position of the bodies are wrong when I import them into a bodies.ini file. The maneuvers outputted from for example the Rendezvous Maneuver Sequencer to get from LEO to the Moon seem sensible in terms of Delta-v and direction(prograde,radial,normal numbers) but in the visualizer the Moon's position at maneuver execution and at intercept don't match the positions in-game and so when I upload directly to the game(or upload after optimization) it's way off. Could this be because of the weird initial epoch number(-31542641.784 secs) assigned to all of the bodies by the RSS mod or am I just missing a step? Could you please just briefly describe the procedure for getting the mod to work with RSS/RO as well? Thanks again, really great mod. Hey there, I'm not entirely sure what's going on, to be honest. Can you show me some screenshots that describe what you're seeing? Probably the easiest way for me to help. Note that I haven't really ever used RSS myself, so I might just be guessing here. Btw, does anyone else use RSS/RO with KSPTOT? Any thoughts on what might be going on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Kerman Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) y'know, sitting here running the MFMS I think it would be nice if we could say "compute sequence X times" and have it spit out to a text file both the shortest duration solution it found and the smallest dV solution it found. Yea, this goes along with my other lazy suggestion to have a "save results to file" button For example after running the sequencer quite a few times for Kerbin->Eve->Urlum->Neidon I've found a 6yr duration @ 3.8 km/s and a 10yr duration @ 2.9 km/s really tho it's less about laziness and more about not having to babysit the MFMS by manually re-running the sequencer after comparing the results with past runs and instead being able to walk away or focus on other stuff while it runs for a few minutes or longer Edited June 13, 2016 by Gaiiden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrowstar Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 9 minutes ago, Gaiiden said: y'know, sitting here running the MFMS I think it would be nice if we could say "compute sequence X times" and have it spit out to a text file both the shortest duration solution it found and the smallest dV solution it found. Yea, this goes along with my other lazy suggestion to have a "save results to file" button For example after running the sequencer quite a few times for Kerbin->Eve->Urlum->Neidon I've found a 6yr duration @ 3.8 km/s and a 10yr duration @ 2.9 km/s really tho it's less about laziness and more about not having to babysit the MFMS by manually re-running the sequencer after comparing the results with past runs and instead being able to walk away or focus on other stuff while it runs for a few minutes or longer This (the multiple runs option) would be fairly easy to do, I think (assuming I can come up with the space on the UI for another widget lol). I'll look into it for the next pre-release. Is the writing to file thing (as opposed to just copy-paste) really that critical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Kerman Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Just now, Arrowstar said: Is the writing to file thing (as opposed to just copy-paste) really that critical? well, no - that was just me trying to save you from having to display both results in the dialog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Kerman Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) hey how's this sound for a good rule of thumb for transfer length max bounds in the MFMS? Run the porkchop plotter from the target to the destination of the leg and then double the number of days it gives you for the best transfer? more MFMS musings - would it possible to have it use the sun as a slingshot waypoint? Could be useful if going from inner planets to outer planets. Say like - from Kerbin to Moho and then a gravity brake at Dres to dip past the Sun on the way to Jool. Sounds a bit roundabout but given the position of planets early in the game could actually be quicker than waiting for them to align better Nevermind, see post below aaaand to make my earlier request slightly more complicated I just realized it might be worth including a third best solution - excess hyperbolic velocity. This would be in the event that you want the probe to stay at the final target, the lower the better. Is there a situation other than flying into a planet that would cause the "Solution shown may not be feasible - please try again" warning to show up? Because otherwise it should probably be a bit more pointed of an error message. It made me initially assume I could massage these values in Mission Architect but I'm not sure that would indeed be a wise idea when one of my trajectories takes me straight through the center of a planet. I think this warning would be more appropriate for when I get a really close flyby, like a few km into the surface or atmo that could possibly be adjusted in MA Allllso I really like the Global View of trajectories that the MFMS generates. Would it be possible for MA to generate a view like that as well? Edited June 13, 2016 by Gaiiden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russm Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, Gaiiden said: more MFMS musings - would it possible to have it use the sun as a slingshot waypoint? Could be useful if going from inner planets to outer planets. Say like - from Kerbin to Moho and then a gravity brake at Dres to dip past the Sun on the way to Jool. Sounds a bit roundabout but given the position of planets early in the game could actually be quicker than waiting for them to align better That'd be "non-trivial". You can't actually gravity-assist past a central body - you can't trade momentum off a body to speed up or slow down your orbit with respect to that body. When you (say) gravity assist around Duna, you're using Duna to change the momentum of your orbit around the Sun. You could only gravity-assist at the Sun to change the momentum of your orbit around the galactic centre. What you can do is use the Oberth effect in a powered flyby of the Sun, but that's not something that MFMS can take account of. Lambert's problem (which underlies the generation of a porkchop plot) requires origin and target orbits around the central body, so you'd need to have the MFMS test a huge number of potential orbits in order to work that way. Basically, think of adding thousands of zero-mass planets in various orbits close to the Sun and then testing all of them in the MFMS to see which give good transfers. Edited June 13, 2016 by russm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russm Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 On 6/12/2016 at 8:21 AM, salajander said: FWIW, I've filed a bug with winehq.com about getting latest KSPTOT working with wine https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=40781 It worked last time, maybe those gurus will have some better ideas. FWIW, the new MCR requires a newer Visual C++ Runtime than vcrun2012. I just installed all the newer ones instead of figuring out which one was required, and then hit the problem I described here. Have you tried a newer vcrun201x? (Based on my experience I don't expect that to make it work, but I think you'll get to a different error). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldmine48 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 13 hours ago, Arrowstar said: Hey there, I'm not entirely sure what's going on, to be honest. Can you show me some screenshots that describe what you're seeing? Probably the easiest way for me to help. Note that I haven't really ever used RSS myself, so I might just be guessing here. Btw, does anyone else use RSS/RO with KSPTOT? Any thoughts on what might be going on? Here are some screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/GvbzX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salajander Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 7 hours ago, russm said: Have you tried a newer vcrun201x? (Based on my experience I don't expect that to make it work, but I think you'll get to a different error). I'm getting the same "Could not successfully parse URI string" error with vcrun2015 installed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrowstar Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 6 hours ago, goldmine48 said: Here are some screenshots: http://imgur.com/a/GvbzX Thanks. So it's hard to say what's wrong. Have you verified that the bodies.ini file you're using for RSS is correct? Are the orbits you input into RMS correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxToksik_RevoluTionxX Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Is it possible to install this without installing KSP? I don't have the hard drive space nor the capabilities to run it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrowstar Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 34 minutes ago, XxToksik_RevoluTionxX said: Is it possible to install this without installing KSP? I don't have the hard drive space nor the capabilities to run it. Yup! Just don't do anything with the gamedata folder in the download ZIP. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrowstar Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 So, thoughts on that last pre-release? Everything working for everyone? Is the coast mass loss functionality easy to use and understand? Btw, apologies on not being around much the last few days here, I actually have a real bird to fly atm lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrowstar Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 Hi everyone, I've finished up the third pre-release of KSP Trajectory Optimization Tool v1.5.5. Here are the changes: Added ability to run multiple MFMS runs in sequence in a hands-off manner; and Added ability to save the text output from MFMS runs to file without manual copy/paste Both of these were feature requests I received earlier. I've been playing with them today and they're quite handy, particularly the first bullet point. I hope all you MFMS users enjoy them. Download Link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/29126891/KSPTOT_v155_prerelease3.zip Please let me know if you run into problems or have questions! Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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