Exo's Rubberband and Duct Tape Emporium. SSTOS, Weird Space Ships, and more!

[KissSh0t]

I heard you like SSTO's so I put an SSTO inside your SSTO..

xD

[Mekan1k]

So.. How do you fly the tiny tot into orbit? I can't....

(With mechjeb I mean. I am a horrible pilot, so I kinda need it.)

[Exothermos]

You totally don't need mechjeb. Fly with ASAS on at all times if you are struggling, and use the keyboard even. It's a standard air-hogging ship so the flight profile matches, but here are the specifics for the Tiny Tot:

1) take off at 1/3 throttle, rotate at 80 m/s

2) climb out at full throttle and 60 degrees

3) at 12 to 15 km slowly start pitching down to 5 degrees. Your acceleration plateau is at 28 to 32 km.

4) start slowly easing off the the throttle as the engines start to bog (listen for it) once you have reached 1800 m/s or more you can pitch up to 45 degrees and hit the rocket (2).

5) Let your jet flame out, turn it off, hit (3) to close some intakes. Burn at 45 degrees or more (I often do 60) to achieve an apoapsis of at least 72. With that achieved, turn everything off and coast up.

6) near your apoapsis begin your circularizing burn. SPACE.

So that's the simple flight profile. I've achieved maximum fuel conservation by actually descending down to 28 km at very high speed then angling back up to 45 degrees from there. It sort of lobs you out into space. I've obtained a 90 km apoapsis with this technique without burning rocket fuel. You can save it for the circularizing burn!

And yes, KissSh0t, you certainly can circularize an orbit while in the atmosphere . Thanks for the suggestion, it was fun.

Edited August 12, 2013 by Exothermos

[KissSh0t]

It certainly saves a lot of fuel doesn't it..

When I'm going up I will pretty much burn full throttle on jet engines going vertical to 20 thousand.. then level out so by the time 30 thousand ticks over it's not going up too fast and isn't going down.. Then just keep it level while going for speed.. then punch yourself out of atmosphere using rocket engines then circularize.

The higher you are, the faster you go on those jet engines, As long as you provide enough air to keep them running. When I made my first fast SSTO I was like holy cow I'm going fast... xD

Since getting into SSTO's.. rockets aren't as interesting anymore.. lol..

Edited August 12, 2013 by KissSh0t
Spelling

[Mekan1k]

You totally don't need mechjeb. Fly with ASAS on at all times if you are struggling, and use the keyboard even.

I am so bad that I DO need mechjeb. Just.... Assume I am that bad a pilot, Ok? Thanks for the instructions though.

Do you mind if I use these designs in my AAR/Story?

[Exothermos]

I am so bad that I DO need mechjeb. Just.... Assume I am that bad a pilot, Ok? Thanks for the instructions though.

Do you mind if I use these designs in my AAR/Story?

Absolutely. Just link it here in this thread when you are done.

Edited August 13, 2013 by Exothermos

[Mekan1k]

Absolutely. Just link it here in this thread when you are done.

My AAR's are all in my signature bar.

[Karmacoma]

Loving the mini SSTO's mate! Great Job!

[Exothermos]

Aurora SSTO added to the Original Post!

Here is the Tiny SSTO pack Post for safe keeping:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Exo's Tiny SSTO Pack!

Are you tired of lugging all that extra weight to orbit? Who needs superfluous things like wing surfaces? Why can't they just put it all into a smaller package?

They Have!

I present Miniaturized SSTOs!

Their small size makes their performance pretty incredible. This isn't reentry...

The results are pretty appealing.

And ridiculous.

With the "Tiny Tot", I believe this might be the smallest footprint for an SSTO (with a cockpit part) that the game will currently allow. (lets see those tiny chair SSTOs!)

Beyond just an exercise in absurdity, the result is a super tiny shuttlecraft that can be carried as a payload up to orbit IN ANOTHER SSTO. I have already carried one with my "Ajax" lifter.

A few of the other designs would be well suited to being Laythe SSTO runabouts for a larger colony ship. Most would work for the task, but I am tired of tinkering with them, so I'll let you figure out where to put the RCS and Docking ports on any that don't have it, if you so desire.

All designs are studies in the exploit of clipping (SPH only, no file tinkering or whatever) and intake spamming so avoid if that bunches your undies. The rest of us can have all the fun.

DOWNLOAD Mini SSTO Pack (8 ships) (.rar file)

Individual Ships:

Tiny Tot

Mighty Mite

Maxi Mite

Teeny Wingy

Itty Bitty Brute

The Mouse

Dinky Drone

Dinky Delta

[Bothersome]

All designs are studies in the exploit of clipping (SPH only, no file tinkering or whatever) and intake spamming so avoid if that bunches your undies. The rest of us can have all the fun.

Why not use infinite fuel too? You are already doing the impossible, why not go all the way?

[Fox62]

Because infinite fuel is just going to far.

[Bothersome]

And 50 intakes aren't????

[Exothermos]

Some perspective is in order.

Absolutely nothing about how SSTO space planes work in KSP is realistic. Nothing. Every SSTO design one can make is impossible, and so are most "parasite" air launch designs. I used to get bent out of shape by intake spamming too until I realized that it really is just a method of making clean SSTO designs that work and actually DO something. If you want to stay "realistic" (which is laughable in this game anyway) you are stuck with one intake per engine. Then you have to pack so much rocket fuel into the thing that it really is just a rocket that you man-handle up to vertical after takeoff. Every other design takes huge liberties with reality. Even with modern technology an SSTO is incredibly hard. That's why we aren't all whisked away on our 1 hour suborbital flight across the Atlantic with a martini in hand. I limit myself to what I can design in the SPH or VAB without dev tools. Then I try to live with the fact that this game about green cartoon space men is not a realistic simulator, and have fun instead.

[Bothersome]

Then why not just use infinite fuel? You willing to take one exploit but not the other?

There is no glory in doing anything that is easy.

[Karmacoma]

Why not use infinite fuel too? You are already doing the impossible, why not go all the way?

All designs are studies in the exploit of clipping (SPH only, no file tinkering or whatever) and intake spamming so avoid if that bunches your undies. The rest of us can have all the fun.

so even tho it says in the op "avoid if that bunches your undies" you still felt the need to comment because you don't like how someone is playing A SINGLE PLAYER GAME?

you sir, are a troll sir!

[Bothersome]

Are you that stupid that you cannot see it's a waste of time trying to impress people with cheaty crafts? I for one, am not impressed. Why? Because it doesn't play by the same rules that make things hard to do. There is no honor in that. If you like playing the easy way, I do not care... I was just trying to wake a few people up. So you guys think the game is too hard? Is that why you need an easy mode? You don't have the mental facilities to do it the way it was intended?

Since you need an easy mode, WHY NOT USE INFINITE FUEL? It's real easy then.

[Exothermos]

One is an assembly exploit, the other is breaking the physicis engine of the game with a mod. Infinite fuel circumvents an important part of the game engine entirely.

The Intake Spam Police may tacitly imply that I, and other reprehensible intake spammers (and partclippers) are somehow 'cheating'. You go so far as to compare it directly to a "cheat" (all infinite fuel users, please continue to do so if you have fun doing it). This subject crops up again and again in these forums ever since the spaceplane parts were released in 0.15 and someone figured out that "hey, if I put more intakes on I can go higher and faster". Almost as if that were intended... I'll try to explain my thinking on this in this post, and it will be the last I respond to this line of criticism in this thread, so prepare yourself for a rant. I advise all who couldn't care less to simply ignore it.

Every part on a stock vehicle, weather it is clipped or not, (including all those intakes), is still calculated with regards to weight, lift, and drag. So as far as the game engine is concerned it isn't "free" performance. I'm sure those values could be tweaked for a more approximate representation of real life, and I have supported doing so. I look at the intake spamming (and other part clipping) as a stand-in for actual engineering. Until we get some approximation of real supersonic and hypersonic inlets and engines in this game (not likely), I'll design things that function is some comparable way.

I'm not denying that using jet engines at the edge of space is dubious. So is reentering the atmosphere in some rickety rocket held together with struts, or sending a kerbal to another planet in a cockpit with no discernible life support, or aerobraking a multi-ton interplanetary ship at 8000 miles per hour without any shielding, or bunching up 50 fuel tanks into a 300 ton asparagus lifter. It goes on and on. If we were to strictly stick with only things that are possible, then we would have a game about going to the moon, building a LEO spacetation, and setting up satellites / probes. And nothing else. We all exploit the deficiencies in realism of KSP to achieve whatever goals we set for our missions and designs and have fun in doing so. Your designs are no different, and if you think that because when you slap a jet nozzle on the back of a rocket fuel tank, it is somehow more realistic because you only put one glowing blue air intake on the front, you are deluding yourself. It is a personal and arbitrary limit.

I'm not interested in any video game glory (or honor, lol) to be gained by adhering your particular arbitrary highhorse. Heck, everything about my Tiny SSTOs (which is what seems to have insulted you so) was about breaking the limits of believably. THAT WAS THE POINT. I wanted people to shake their head when they saw them, but hopefully with a smile, not a puritanical scowl. I am an unrepentant intake spammer, and proud of it.

That's all I have to say about that.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Exothermos

[Karmacoma]

sorry Mr Troll I bow down to your superior knowledge of how i should play a single player game.

Could also you provide information on how you wipe your arse as i feel i may be doing that wrong in my life as well

learn some tolerance for how people like todo things, or avoid them entirely.

*EDIT* apologies for invading your thread Exo I've had my say so i'll shut up now

Edited August 19, 2013 by Karmacoma

[Exothermos]

so even tho it says in the op "avoid if that bunches your undies" you still felt the need to comment because you don't like how someone is playing A SINGLE PLAYER GAME?

you sir, are a troll sir!

His name is "Bothersome" so I would think that it was a Novelty troll account if not for the fact that he regularly contributes with designs of his own.

[Bothersome]

See, I only asked a simple question. It was Karmacoma that started the name calling.

If you can't handle a simple question, you need to seek professional help. So through reason and logic you have to come up with a reason you want intake spamming for cheating the air but not wanting cheated fuel. I'm ok with your answer. You could have also said, "simply to make cooler looking crafts." or any answer really. I just wanted to know why you don't use infinite fuel? You provided a decent enough answer for me. I do not care one way or the the other. But I still am not impressed, I built my SSTO plane with only what the game provided as standard intakes. It makes it to space. It's a bit harder to do than just pointing it to the sky and let it build up speed till it damn near obtains orbit. But hey, space travel is not supposed to be easy, at least until impulse engines and warp drives are invented.

[Rune]

One is an assembly exploit, the other is breaking the physicis engine of the game with a mod. Infinite fuel circumvents an important part of the game engine entirely.

[...]

That's all I have to say about that.

I adhere to your policy wholeheartedly. Pretty much exactly the reason I build with part clipping on by default.

Rune. I design for form as well as function.

[Karmacoma]

See, I only asked a simple question. It was Karmacoma that started the name calling.

And I'm sure there was no underlying tone in the "simple question". Well if that's the case then I am sorry for calling you a troll (even tho that looked exactly like what you were doing). You actually have some good designs yourself and kudos for keeping it 100% stock. That said, you shouldn't really have a problem with how other people like to play a game, which you seem to have from the general tone of the posts you have made here.

so i have a simple question for you, do you hold the same hatred for mods as you do for clipping and intake stacking?

once again sorry for the thread spam and i still think the clipped,air abusing little ssto's are excellent

Edited August 19, 2013 by Karmacoma

[Bothersome]

It seemed to bother you more than anyone else. It doesn't bother me as to how you play, but you came across like you needed to defend your play style for some reason. Playing with cheats (to accomplish something that could be done with regular methods) or an "easy mode" is a sign of weakness. You seem to be concerned about what other people think of you or your play style. If you know you weren't weak in that, then you wouldn't have even bothered to reply. Besides, I wasn't even asking you the question. But since you like the easy modes of play, just asking why do you not use the more easy modes like infinite fuel? Now you can answer the question or you can get snidey with it. But if I don't see any signs of intelligence in your post, I won't even bother replying back.

[Karmacoma]

It seemed to bother you more than anyone else. It doesn't bother me as to how you play, but you came across like you needed to defend your play style for some reason. Playing with cheats (to accomplish something that could be done with regular methods) or an "easy mode" is a sign of weakness. You seem to be concerned about what other people think of you or your play style. If you know you weren't weak in that, then you wouldn't have even bothered to reply. Besides, I wasn't even asking you the question. But since you like the easy modes of play, just asking why do you not use the more easy modes like infinite fuel? Now you can answer the question or you can get snidey with it. But if I don't see any signs of intelligence in your post, I won't even bother replying back.

I really couldn't care what other people think of my play style, as i have already said "its a single player game", how i play or anyone else is entirely their decision, i have never, nor will ever judge anyone on how they decide to play a single player game as it has no impact on my life in the slightest. As for defending my play style i don't see that i have, or nor do i need to for reasons already stated that you seem to be missing. My problem was with the fact that even tho it was blatantly stated that the whole design concept was a lesson in part clipping you had to come up with a question that seemed to be trolling.

Seeing as you have now asked me, why i use part clipping is because it (in my opinion) makes it look good no other reason, i am more than capable of designing ssto (or anything else for that matter) following your build style and had done from .17 till i actually found out about the debug menu in .20.

anyway i'm done filling this thread with garbage and fueling your little mission, if you would like to continue, please just pm me (but make it an intelligent pm or i may not bother replying back )

Now you can answer the question or you can get snidey with it.

can't i do both?

Edited August 19, 2013 by Karmacoma

[KissSh0t]

I think of Air Intakes the same way I think of Fuel... want more fuel? Add more fuel... Want more Air the higher you go? add more air intakes.

It's a pretty simple thing really.. It is not cheating, it is using parts in the game, if you can build it, then you can build it.

But I must say I do not use part clipping.