Multiplayer is made by throwing code together it seems :p

[sgt_flyer]

"Can technically" does not automaticly imply "can meaningfully"

I will clarify my view:

I'am not totally against multiplayer in KSP.

But I think that threads like this are approaching problem from wrong aspect.

First you should envision gameplay and only THEN search for technical opportunities to implement it.

If you do opposite, you risk creating something that will be fun to use for nobody.

- well, KSP multiplayer would be a Sandbox multiplayer - so the player themselves will make their own gameplay with the game's elements

think Minecraft multiplayer here they made different ways to play the game in multiplayer - direct confrontations, sport games, shared constructions - all of that with vanilla minecraft:)

[Subcidal]

Except for the fact that multiplayer discussion is against the rules, which it clearly states. Also, why do you think that rule is in place? It's because multiplayer has been brought up over and over only to come back to the same "no, it's not coming any time soon" that the developers always give. There's just no point anymore.

Nobodys asking for it, There isn't a single person this entire thread that doesn't realize it's not likely to come at all, muchless soon. If it irritates you that much then don't read the thread. It's really that simple, No reason to go all nazi on any thread discussing anything multiplayer related to KSP. It's not a suggestion, It's in the general discussion forum. If you don't care to partake in the discussion, don't discuss it.

Plenty of other people enjoy talking about how it could be set up, what goals could be made and general problem solving. If it was in the suggestion forum I'd agree with you but it's just a topic that involves multiplayer in the general discussion forum. Let people discuss it. Besides putting up a rule isn't going to stop new people from asking, It's best to have a thread that talks about it so it's not a question you have to ask in the first place. Nobody reads forum rules, it's a formality to point somebody towards after their "Will there be multiplayer" thread gets locked.

IMO it should be stickied with the original post stating the most common arguments. Then you don't get people constantly creating new threads about it. Work smart not hard type of deal.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Subcidal

[0x7be]

- well, KSP multiplayer would be a Sandbox multiplayer - so the player themselves will make their own gameplay with the game's elements

think Minecraft multiplayer here they made different ways to play the game in multiplayer - direct confrontations, sport games, shared constructions - all of that with vanilla minecraft:)

Minecraft has totally different mechanics, it is risky to assume that good things will happed on their own just because they did in Minecraft

[sgt_flyer]

but minecraft is still a sandbox game the basics of sandboxes, are to let people do what they want with the game mechanics - it's not guided multiplayer like FPS multiplayer where you have to go after objectives, etc - try to force a certain type of gameplay on players in a sandbox environment, and they will most surely dislike it, if they can't play 'their' way - the key in sandboxes, is for players to create their own objectives

imagine : want to make space races in KSP ? someone will make a bunch of rings in orbit to create a racetrack

want to make giant wheeled rovers trying to topple each other - it's possible etc - (and resources management are something which is planned in future versions of KSP), so if players want to make corporate style groups, it's possible

Edited July 4, 2013 by sgt_flyer

[0x7be]

but minecraft is still a sandbox game the basics of sandboxes, are to let people do what they want - it's not guided multiplayer like FPS multiplayer where you have to go after objectives, etc - try to force a certain type of gameplay on players in a sandbox environment, and they will most surely dislike it, if they can't play 'their' way

We are talking about different things

[Scotius]

Half of Minecraft YT clips my nephew watches is about people griefing each other in multi. Shared game could be useful for many things - building and maintaining a colony on the fringes of Kerbol system would be much easier if bunch of guys could get together and control ships individually. But i sure as heck don't want to log into multi-session, and find only cloud of debris where my station or mothership used to be - just because someone "incidentally" placed something on a collision course (and now is sitting somewhere chuckling and uploading a clip on YouTube). And it would happen - it's inevitable, and we all know it.

[Sigma117]

I think you're working on different perspectives. One person is thinking sanbox with friends, in which case co-operation and station building is great, and implied. While the other is thinking sandbox with random people, where...the less fun aspects come into play.

Still, the main gameplay flaw in mp is timewarping. It's needed, and I've yet to see a good solution to the issue. Someone suggested a warp drive, but that would lead to people pointing at the Mun (Or planet) and firing, missing out half the fun (It is fun right? ) of learning how to get there realistically.

As for the sticky thing, I agree with that. If something is going to be banned, there should be a sticky along the lines of "Banned Threads" I read the rules once ages ago, and not once since, but a banned threads will likely stand out and be read more.

[Canopus]

Look what you have started Ivan!

[tek_604]

I've also never understood why people want warp drive. As sigma said above, it removes the fun from getting there realistically, and if you want to get anywhere faster, why not just HyperEdit? Travel through space? Nah, not when you can fold space with HyperEdit. Don't even need to get to orbit, do it straight from the pad.

So, one way to get around timewarp issues in MP would be the wholesale use of HyperEdit, to bend space, and avoid time at all.

[Sigma117]

"HyperEdit, to bend space, and avoid time at all."

...the best description of HyperEdit I've ever seen, kudos to you sir.

[sgt_flyer]

Well : regarding my warp drive, i did not meant it to be an instant movement i was more thinking of having something like the current timewarp - but only for your ship so you'll still need to think ahead for planning your transfers, because gravity still comes into play. (and most planet to planet transfers would be done like this : escape the planet's SOI, then timewarp your kerbol orbit (which will go much faster than the planets while you are warped) the make your transfer burn when you reached your transfer window. (note : those transfers would be different from regular KSP, because the target will not move very fast compared to your warp speed)

[Faark]

I don't really see a big technical challenge in adding a small MP to the game, at least not for Squad. A player would take control of a ship (= object from the tracking station) and all changes he does have to be forwarded to other players. Sure it gets more complicated the objects of players get close to each other or even interact, but that should be solvable. I'm not into KSP mods, but the only real question is if they have ways to access and set the information that need to be synced.

Timewarp? Well, a simple solution would be to ask all players if they are fine with it / always follow the one who wants the least timewarp. Biggest problem is that the game isn't really designed for MP. An MP might just not be fun, for example because there isn't always sth to do for both players, and i can understand that Squad don't want to put any resources into it.

[SZDarkhack]

This has been discussed many times now, we have already "agreed" that the "minimum-common-warp" system (i.e. the lowest warp selected between all the players is active) would be feasible for a small number of players (which is what it should be, imho, just between a few friends).

As for the point raised by the original poster, i am pretty confident that it can be done with a mod (given the above restrictions). Granted, it would be a large undertaking, but it is certainly possible. We already have some mods that have laid the groundwork (e.g. Kerbal LiveFeed), and programmatic timewarp control is, of course, definitely feasible (as it is demonstrated by many mods, e.g. Mechjeb, Kerbal Alarm Clock etc.). Throw in Telemachus and you have an amazing, asymmetric co-op system. Again, i'm not claiming it is easy, but i AM claiming that it is possible.

Regarding the comments about banning the thread, i don't see how it goes against any rules. It's not requesting the feature from the dev team, it's a simple discussion about modding. There's nothing wrong with that.

[Giossepi]

This has been discussed many times now, we have already "agreed" that the "minimum-common-warp" system (i.e. the lowest warp selected between all the players is active) would be feasible for a small number of players (which is what it should be, imho, just between a few friends).

This, a thousand times this.

I have no idea why everyone who brings up multiplier gets shot down because "warp would be impossible" Plenty of amazing games do this like DEFCON and it works fine,

and people thinking that they are going to be playing with randoms. I think that we should think about multiplier as a small thing between friends with little private servers, sure people could have open servers much like minecraft but you wouldnt have to, you and your buddy could have your own universe to build space stations, race mun buggies, and blow your own rockets up in.

[Arran]

never understood the need of discussing something, that wont gonna happen..

[EmissionGeneration]

Something I put on the Steam Forums awhile ago is:

* Multiplayer should be Co-Op Only [1 - 3 people] either through LAN or Internet, Private or Open Server.

* The Host will be the "Captain"

* The Captain decides who has permission to add Modules in the VAB / SPH [All can View, but with more than 1 adding modules Voice Chat is recommended for better Communication]

* Only 1 Ship with all Co-Op Players can be Launched [How ever many Ships connected to the initial Rocket is their choice for design]

* The Captain chooses who is the Pilot.

Now as their is 1 person controlling the Ship, what are the others meant to do? Well seeing though Squad are implementing IVA EVA's, why not implement some IVA Jobs to do? It's not like real Astronauts just fly and do nothing else, they have many things that they need to take care of. I'm not going to list them, because I'm sure most of you are into Astronomy. Although alot of people will think that some of those things might not be enjoyable to do, but the point of this is to Play together with Friends. Some of the best Online experiences I've had is in Flight Simulator X [No time warp there] and the enjoyable part of that was chatting with Friends and meeting a bunch of guys who are interested in the same field as I am. Having the right people there can turn the most dull job into something entertaining.

* The Pilot will fly to Orbit.

* The other 2 will sit back and enjoy the G's.

* While the Pilot starts his burn for his next Node someone else can start plotting the 1 after that while the other Pilot could do some IVA Jobs, ect ect.

* Once at the destination, then any Landers attached may have seperate Pilots in and they break away for different landing zones. [Landing doesn't NEED timewarp, although sometimes it might be abit slow, it is still easily done without.

* Once on the surface, each player can go on their own Journey for Science [if we ever get Multiplayer / Co-Op in the Game, there will be plenty of Science to be done, so do not judge by what we have at this current stage of the Alpha].

Timewarp is easy to fix in Co-Op. As all players are together in the same Vessel, going to the Destination is no hassle with Timewarp, but what happens when their at their destination and a Timewarp is needed for some reason? Well they simply click a button that sends a Notification to the Captain that they require a Timewarp. The Captain will check with all the Crew that everyone is in a safe spot, and either Accepts the Requests, or puts it on hold until the Crew's safety can be assured. Once everyone has Accepted, then the player may Timewarp as Requested.

Now of course people are not going to just simply stick to "playing in the same Vessel or Mission" So if they all decide to go to different Planets, then sure, that's their problem cause they will have a hell of a boring time with planning it all out. Everyone will Timewarp on their initial Burn, but some will be shorter, some will be longer, the Shorter 1's will reach their Target and will need to do their Descent ect ect [time that takes will vary], while the others are still floating in Space with no Timewarp. Again though, this will be their choice, the point of this would be to play as a Team, not go seperate ways.

All of this is very possible. Timewarp is definitely possible.

EDIT: This would most preferably be better for a DLC, that way it's not in the Core-Game, so only the people serious about it have the ability to Join Games to try and limit Griefers [impossible to do in any Multiplayer Game] but the Captain would have Kicking / Banning abilities.

Edited July 5, 2013 by EmissionGeneration