KSP Graphics Adapters

[Korb Biakustra]

I was not speaking about the number of cores as I know KSP won't use them, but an i7, even ULV, is still a decent CPU, and there is someone reporting 40 FPS in this thread with ULV-i7 and HD4000 chipset, which I have. Another poster has reported being able to play with an i3, with KSP starting to choke only with ships of more than 200 parts. Yet, I get lower performance than the person with an i3, and 20 times lower FPS with the same CPU as in the first report (or even a better one, as the i7 in the Helix is a recent version), and I doubt RAM and SSD are the caveat so there must be a setting I might change somewhere. I'm running 1368x720 with lowest settings.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Korb Biakustra

[georgTF]

I use the HD4000 and i have no complaints. I'm not a heavy gamer so using this saves me the trouble of coughing up for a dedicated gfx card. It gets a bit noisy at times, and a dedicated gfx card would improve most games but it would have to be a >100 euro purchase to make a noticeable difference.

As far as KSP goes, it runs nicely and all other (few) games i play look beautifull and run smooth. The weaker HD IGPs are not such a great choice but HD4000 is ok. It's an underrated chip.

[DMagic]

Performance is heavily influenced by the total part count of your craft. High part counts will choke even the fastest of desktop CPU's. It's also possible that the upgrade to 0.21 is causing some slow down. You should reinstall KSP to make sure that there are no issues caused by the upgrade (I had to do this for both the 0.21 and the 0.21.1 upgrades).

If you want to compare your performance to others you can go to my CPU performance thread, download my test rocket and send me the results (make sure the physics slider is moved all the way to the right in the settings menu). With that low resolution and low graphics settings the game performance will be limited by CPU speed, so you can compare with the results others have reported.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/42877-CPU-Performance-Database

[bigdad84]

Intel HD 4000 graphics does not do good, on a 15" inch MacBook Pro Retina Display

[Korb Biakustra]

Thanks for the additional replies. So definitely there is something wrong in my case, as georgTF has just confirmed the game runs smooth, as did the figures in DMagic's thread (not really smoth, but with FPS with two digits at least). Yet, I've tried to run the trial with the 600-part CPU test ship and got much lower FPS. The test might be biased because the ship finally ended up in water before I had time to exhaust all fuel and stages because it started to drift and I couldn't fix the trajectory with the performance I've had, but out of 733 records in the FPS .csv file, 732 are between 0 and 4 FPS. One is 5 FPS, the first, which means before the launch, but it dropped to 0-4 before the launch too afterwards. Mean is 3 FPS. The FPS were not only low, but time was also slowed down. I've only been able to clear the first stage and exhaust 70% of the fuel in stage 2, but it took something like 10-15 min I'd say. I'll try again tomorrow with a straight trajectory and SAS to avoid the crash, but not now because it's late here (5:44 AM).

However the first results tend to highlight comparatively low performance in my case. My Internet connection is terrible here and I couldn't get the Excel file after 4 (loooong) attempts (it was difficult to get the .craft too but it finally worked). My CPU is a i7-3667U. Unfortunately my connection is also too terrible here to reinstall KSP, there might be weeks before I get a good connection back (I'm not home). :/

Edited August 1, 2013 by Korb Biakustra

[DMagic]

Yeah, that seems way too slow for that CPU. Even the low end mobile i3's stayed around 4-5 FPS for those first stages. My i7-4650U, which should be fairly comparable to yours, managed around 8-10 FPS for those stages.

A reinstall is always a good idea when they release a new update. It can be a lot of trouble, I think it's around 1.5GB to download, but it could make a big difference.

And that rocket should be stable with SAS on. It's best to just fly straight up, but you should be able to make controlled turns even in the early stages, within reasonable limits, of course. Extremely low performance might affect that, I'm not sure.

[georgTF]

The highest part count i launched was around 1100 parts, but it was nearly unplayable. Below 300 is smooth sailing while above depends. Droping stages during ascent helps obviously.

The IGP isn't alone in crunching numbers, size and speed of memory, HDD fragmentation, other apps and processes runinng can hurt performance. I have 8 Gb of decent-at-best RAM but also the i5 3570k CPU which according to this comparison is slightly faster (since KSP does not use more than one core, the core differences are moot) and KSP likes raw power. Also note tha base frequency disparity between the two HD4000 series chips. I do not alter the clock, there's no need.

Edited August 1, 2013 by georgTF

[Korb Biakustra]

i7-3667U and i7-4650U should be quite similar indeed. I've reinstalled the game, it took me all day downloading it with my current connection, but finally completed. Seeing the .csv file, it did not change anything, but I surely had to check, as you sometimes experience improvements with reinstallations!

Last stages run relatively smoothly, but not as smoothly as you guys have reported: 20 FPS (max) for the last stage (only the pod). It's difficult to tell whether it's because of the lower number of parts, or because of the terrain being very distant. My belief is that the terrain accounts at least partly, since the CPU was never used at its maximum during the whole flight despite temperatures being far from the critical temperature for this processor (it hasn't exceeded 66° C and fans were not a maximal speed).

Isn't there a way to force my CPU to run at higher speed? It surprisingly remained at 20-35% usage and 0.75 GHz for the whole flight, though it is a 2.0 GHz CPU (2.5 GHz in Turboboost), so I can't understand how it may have limited the framerate to < 10 for the first half of the flight. It had the gut for higher speed. :/ It is a dual core, so I don't know whether each core caps at 50% for 100% usage, or if each core can reach 100% itself, but anyway it did not exceed 35% while, at worst, it should have been capped at 50%.

My laptop is wired, in High performance power management setting, and max CPU speed is set to 100% in the advanced settings of this power profile.

Edited August 1, 2013 by Korb Biakustra

[DMagic]

Isn't there a way to force my CPU to run at higher speed? It surprisingly remained at 20-35% usage and 0.75 GHz for the whole flight, though it is a 2.0 GHz CPU (2.5 GHz in Turboboost)

How are you measuring the CPU speed? Try CPU-Z, that should give the most accurate results.

If it really is stuck at 0.75GHz for some reason, that's a problem, and it would explain the slow performance. It might somehow be stuck at the idle speed. There's probably a way to get it to behave normally, I'm just not sure exactly how.

[Korb Biakustra]

I just used the Task manager, performance tab. It might be inaccurate, but given the values, there's definitely something wrong, right?

Here is what I get when I run an IntelBurnTest at maximum stress level:

It stays mostly at 0.75, sometimes 0.78, and not above 31% usage. Temp is nost exceeding 58° C but fans are still off or inaudible (and they can get very noisy when running full speed). I triple-checked, max CPU speed is set to 100% in power management in the current mode ("High performance", approximate translation from the French).

[DMagic]

Task manager can be wrong, mine says 3.85GHz when the max turbo is 3.6GHz. CPU-Z gives values that make more sense and should be correct.

But if your CPU really is stuck at 0.75GHz that's a problem. Maybe there is some BIOS setting that needs to be changed. It's hard to know for sure what the problem could be.

[Chewie]

I run KSP on a Sandy Bridge Intel 4000HD and like others before me have mentioned, it runs well but not on full settings.

[georgTF]

What about Power Management? Are you set in some power saving mode? Or maybe some performance options are limited. That would keep apps from taxing the CPU to the limit.

Edited August 2, 2013 by georgTF

[Korb Biakustra]

As posted above, that's one thing I've checked at the beginning and I re-checked it several times just to make sure, because it would have been very relevant, but no, I'm in High Performance with max CPU speed set to 100%.

I've tried rocket science: rebooting. Running again the Intel Burn test resulted in CPU usage above 30%, and speed above 0.75 GHz (though still not 100% and 2.5 GHz, but better than before anyway). KSP was way smoother. Beside the fact that it is already weird that it required a reboot, the other weird thing is that it did not totally solve the problem either. Sometimes, it reverts to this 30%/0.75 GHz limit. I'm currently playing KSP and during one flight, it will change from 2.5 GHz to 1.8 GHz and eventually 0.75 GHz for a while, and thus framerate will drop to < 5 FPS. It's really surprising that this throttling is not related to the game's requirements or CPU temperature. I don't understand what governs this CPU management, but for sure, again, it's not temperature and it appears it is not KSP either since the framerate drops dramatically when the CPU is throttled down that much. KSP will of course increase CPU usage compared to a situation when it's not running, but something seems to overrule it.

[lammatt]

Task manager can be wrong, mine says 3.85GHz when the max turbo is 3.6GHz. CPU-Z gives values that make more sense and should be correct.

But if your CPU really is stuck at 0.75GHz that's a problem. Maybe there is some BIOS setting that needs to be changed. It's hard to know for sure what the problem could be.

I dont know about Intel chips...

but for AMD... they have a dedicated program to set almost everything; it's called AMDOverdrive

not only you can set the voltages and clockspeed of the FSB and the CPU multiplier; you can also set the ram timings with it

i expect Intel has similar things as well...CPU-Z hasnt much to play with

[jaredkzr]

I just used the Task manager, performance tab. It might be inaccurate, but given the values, there's definitely something wrong, right?

Here is what I get when I run an IntelBurnTest at maximum stress level:

It stays mostly at 0.75, sometimes 0.78, and not above 31% usage. Temp is nost exceeding 58° C but fans are still off or inaudible (and they can get very noisy when running full speed). I triple-checked, max CPU speed is set to 100% in power management in the current mode ("High performance", approximate translation from the French).

Right click on the graph and select Change Graph To -> Logical Processors

This will show you each core. Post another screen shot with some stress testing while showing all cores.

If it's stuck at around 0.75 Ghz then thats a problem. There are a few possibilities:

1) The CPU has overheated and is throttling down to prevent damage. Use this: http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html while stress testing to monitor temps.

2) The computer is in a power saver mode.

3) The CPU is stuck in a lower phase. This can be a bios problem. Check and see if there is an update to your bios.

[Korb Biakustra]

Thanks for the input. Here is the screenshot:

Yesterday I've been playing KSP and, as described earlier, the CPU was sometimes at 2.5 GHz and sometimes at 0.75, with no apparent reasons to change (not high temperature nor KSP requiring less performance). The last minutes (or hours), it was stuck to 0.75. I've let the laptop in sleep mode during the night, and today it still seems to be locked to 0.75 GHz, even under stress test as in the screenshot above.

I have HWMonitor to control temperatures, as well as TPFC (Thinkpad Fan Control, but it is not set to a conservative mode that might throttle the CPU down, it only acts on the fans and it lets the CPU reach higher temperatures than those experienced here, I've seen it plenty of times). The computer is not in a power saver mode but in "High performance" power management scheme, and it happens both with AC power and battery. The BIOS is up to date, but I believe it could still be a BIOS problem related to the convertible nature of my laptop. When undocked in tablet mode, it is supposed to throttle down the CPU a little bit, but it should revert it back to its normal state when docked back. That is where the issue may be in my case (not only though, see below).

On the Lenovo forums, people have reported this behavior to work correctly, but there are others that have the same issue I described here. No solution as been found so far, unfortunately, and the Lenovo technicians have not been able to reproduce the issue yet. :/ Noteworthy, since the yesterday's reboot that allowed full power of my CPU in KSP, before the CPU returned to a locked-0.75 GHz state, I have not undocked the tablet, so the issue does not specifically result from undocking/redocking. Perhaps there is still an issue with the BIOS that is certainly a modified version for such hardware, and that may cause problems even when I don't switch between tablet and laptop modes. It's really unfortunate that there are no solution yet, and even not identification of the source of the issue. We are a few experiencing this, but not a majority, so it might take long before we solve this.

Thanks all for your help. I hope I'll figure out how to solve this soon, because rebooting is not a decent workaround, and it doesn't totally solve the issue anyway because I'm stuck again now.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Korb Biakustra

[jaredkzr]

Thanks for the input. Here is the screenshot:

Yesterday I've been playing KSP and, as described earlier, the CPU was sometimes at 2.5 GHz and sometimes at 0.75, with no apparent reasons to change (not high temperature nor KSP requiring less performance). The last minutes (or hours), it was stuck to 0.75. I've let the laptop in sleep mode during the night, and today it still seems to be locked to 0.75 GHz, even under stress test as in the screenshot above.

I have HWMonitor to control temperatures, as well as TPFC (Thinkpad Fan Control, but it is not set to a conservative mode that might throttle the CPU down, it only acts on the fans and it lets the CPU reach higher temperatures than those experienced here, I've seen it plenty of times). The computer is not in a power saver mode but in "High performance" power management scheme, and it happens both with AC power and battery. The BIOS is up to date, but I believe it could still be a BIOS problem related to the convertible nature of my laptop. When undocked in tablet mode, it is supposed to throttle down the CPU a little bit, but it should revert it back to its normal state when docked back. That is where the issue may be in my case (not only though, see below).

On the Lenovo forums, people have reported this behavior to work correctly, but there are others that have the same issue I described here. No solution as been found so far, unfortunately, and the Lenovo technicians have not been able to reproduce the issue yet. :/ Noteworthy, since the yesterday's reboot that allowed full power of my CPU in KSP, before the CPU returned to a locked-0.75 GHz state, I have not undocked the tablet, so the issue does not specifically result from undocking/redocking. Perhaps there is still an issue with the BIOS that is certainly a modified version for such hardware, and that may cause problems even when I don't switch between tablet and laptop modes. It's really unfortunate that there are no solution yet, and even not identification of the source of the issue. We are a few experiencing this, but not a majority, so it might take long before we solve this.

Thanks all for your help. I hope I'll figure out how to solve this soon, because rebooting is not a decent workaround, and it doesn't totally solve the issue anyway because I'm stuck again now.

Hmm...

So we know it's definitely being throttled down to 0.75Ghz.

This sounds an aweful lot like temperature problems. On laptops the processor will underclock itself whenever temperatures reach a certain point to prevent damage and try to cool off. Go into the power options and click "Change plan settings" on the high performance setting. Then go to "Change advanced power settings". Scroll down the list to Processor power management and open up that list. Make sure the System Cooling Policy is set to active and that the Max Processor state is at 100%.

You might look into this topic here: http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/X-Series-Tablet-ThinkPad-Laptops/helix-CPU-speed-issue/td-p/1159651

I'll see if I can dig up anything else.

[Korb Biakustra]

Thanks for your reply.

I am sure it is not a CPU-temperature-related problem. It really looks like a CPU-temperature-related problem, that's why I've checked underclock settings dozens of times in Advanced power settings, as stated above, and additionally, the temperatures remain way below the values they can reach when Windows indexer is running, for instance. Maybe there is a thermal limit for the GPU though, and if yes, then I don't know how high is this limit and if KSP makes the GPU reach it. However, as the 0.75 GHz limit can occur without running KSP, I doubt it results from the GPU usage in KSP.

As mentioned above, I'm unfortunately already using the High Performance setting, and I've already made sure System cooling policy is set to active and Max processor state is set to 100%. I'm running out of ideas, that's why I believe it might be a bug with the BIOS, as the BIOS for a convertible laptop/tablet might be somehow experimental, and others are experiencing the same issue (namely in the thread you have linked, I had already posted in it: I'm Kabouik, end of page 6).

Thanks a lot again for your help. Unfortunately these ideas have already been tried, and I have no additional ideas right now, but anyone does, please don't hesitate to share because I'm getting desperate! I want my Kerbals to conquer the cosmos!

Edited August 3, 2013 by Korb Biakustra