Would you cheat death?

[ANWRocketMan]

Personally I think the first step to biological immortality would be cloning the body, and somehow transferring consciousness to this new body.(somehow establishing a physical synapse link to the other brain for example and giving the brains time to incorporate themselves. After this link is established and control of both bodies is attained, the first body could slowly be killed off(shutting down the nervous system, and eventually shutting down the old brain slowly. This process could be repeated. It might however lead to severe loss of memory, although the consciousness of the original person might be maintained.

I think this is a much more realistic step forward than directly to computers as we a. don't have the processing power or the knowledge of how consciousness works. The brain is very different too from modern-day computers. Thus, it w=would be more plausible to transfer consciousness to a new biological body. This also adds the advantage of being able to genetically modify the new body with certain desirable traits, eliminate genetic diseases etc.

To answer the question: yes. I would give up any eternity for a 1000 years in this universe.

I would not however, want to live forever(not that this is possible). I'm pretty sure I'd be pretty fed up after the first 10 000 years. Not to mention the fact that you might not remember anything from your distant past. But I would love the opportunity to live anywhere between 1,000 to 3,000 years.

Edited July 15, 2013 by ANWRocketMan

[icemasterpt]

consciousness is not a physical thing, so it will never be stored in a computer.

But if it was, yes i would cheat death .

[Brabbit1987]

consciousness is not a physical thing, so it will never be stored in a computer.

But if it was, yes i would cheat death .

Not really sure what you mean by physical. No matter what, it can be replicated. ANYTHING can be replicated, you just have to know how to do it.

[The Jedi Master]

Without getting too philosophical, I much as I don't like the idea of death, I hate the idea of living forever even more. Think about it: your consciousness... stored in a computer... FOREVER.

We can't cheat death forever, anyway, the Final End always gets it's man.

[Sirrobert]

consciousness is not a physical thing, so it will never be stored in a computer.

But if it was, yes i would cheat death .

Consciousness is the result of your brain fireing neurons, and the rest of the body giving of hormones that are sensed by the brain (in turn resulting in more neuron fireing).

When we understand exactly how the brain works, we will be able to replicate it. Or stimulate it on a computer

Or are you going to bring 'soul' into a science forum?

[WestAir]

And even then, replicating it will just result in a new consciousness. It won't be you any more than a clone is you.

Though I do now have a question. If you were to split a brain in two - right down the middle so that the left and right hemispheres of the brain now longer connect, have you created two consciousnesses? When you recombine them, does each new "person" just become one again?

I'm starting to think I don't even grasp the concept of self-awareness and consciousness, because the whole thing seems so hard to understand.

[Sirrobert]

And even then, replicating it will just result in a new consciousness. It won't be you any more than a clone is you.

Though I do now have a question. If you were to split a brain in two - right down the middle so that the left and right hemispheres of the brain now longer connect, have you created two consciousnesses? When you recombine them, does each new "person" just become one again?

I'm starting to think I don't even grasp the concept of self-awareness and consciousness, because the whole thing seems so hard to understand.

You do know the brain hemispheres perform completely different functions right?

[icemasterpt]

Consciousness is the result of your brain fireing neurons, and the rest of the body giving of hormones that are sensed by the brain (in turn resulting in more neuron fireing).

When we understand exactly how the brain works, we will be able to replicate it. Or stimulate it on a computer

Or are you going to bring 'soul' into a science forum?

consciousness is the result of my brain firing neurons? are you talking about subjectivity? About the conscious awareness of your own existence? Because that is what consciousness is.

When you See something, neurons fire , like you say, your optical nerve transmits chemical-electrical impulses to the brain, yes, and our neural networks correlate what we see with other past experiences. To this point, i believe it is Explained.

But our neurons don't generate the idea of "I Am aware that i am seeing something, because i am self-aware of my own existence". Thats not that simple, as saying: Ok, our brain generates consciousness, so we are all mechanical. First, there is no Scientifical Proof that our brain generates consciousness. And this is one of the areas i spend most of my time researching.

Second: look at an Idea.

Are you suggesting unconscious material cells in your brain generate something as imaterial as an Idea?

and please, stop using the "soul in science" argument because im not even speaking about Souls and spirits and that kind of thing. now, saying consciousness is not a physical phenomena is considered retarded just because mainstream science doesn't want to leave the materialistic paradigm?

I am not even religious.. So dont even go there. But do i need a religion to think outside the box? I love science i really do, science is our understanding of the Universe and Our own selves, but does that understanding need to be based on a linear thinking?

I dont believe science will ever be able to define a conscious experience while it's insisting to press the Materialistic key

[InfinityArch]

The whole "real you or clone" question regarding brain uploading is complete hogwash.

For one, the notion depends on the existence, immutability, and exclusivity to a particular medium of the self, of "you" or "I" as meaningful concepts, to use more approachable terms.

Neurobiologists and other experts are somewhat split on this issue, but if the concept of self is merely an illusion, as some research suggests, the question of whether or not a digital recreation of your brain shares your consciousness and is "you" is meaningless, since there is no "you" to begin with.

That said, if the definition of self allows for mutability, there is still room for a "core of being" in modern models of the brain, and ignoring the possibility of souls existing, such a self must be quantifiable.

Given that most if not all higher animals are believed to be sentient, and presumably possessing a "self", and that the structure of such organisms' brains often differ quite dramatically from those of humans, and that the self appears to endure in spite of the exact atoms making up the brain's structure is in constant flux, it is almost certain that the mechanism that generates the self, assuming it exists at all, occurs at a level of abstraction above the actual physical composition of the brain, which in turn would indicate that the self is not necessarily exclusive to the architecture of the human brain.

The most likely candidate for the "source of consciousness" seems to be the an emergent effect of the interactions occurring within the brain, which would not be by any means impossible to duplicate, which implies multiple instances of "the self" can exist.

Thus, if your mind were to be copied to another brain or computer with or without the destruction of the original, it would still be you if such a term is actually meaningful (if the self exists).

So I would be totally cool with mind uploading.

[WestAir]

You do know the brain hemispheres perform completely different functions right?

They do, however they're still brains and if we ignore the vital consequences of this type of surgery the philosophical question remains: Does splitting the brain create two consciousnesses that are independent of one another?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain for my overall query, just taken to a much further degree.

[Sirrobert]

consciousness is the result of my brain firing neurons? are you talking about subjectivity? About the conscious awareness of your own existence? Because that is what consciousness is.

When you See something, neurons fire , like you say, your optical nerve transmits chemical-electrical impulses to the brain, yes, and our neural networks correlate what we see with other past experiences. To this point, i believe it is Explained.

But our neurons don't generate the idea of "I Am aware that i am seeing something, because i am self-aware of my own existence". Thats not that simple, as saying: Ok, our brain generates consciousness, so we are all mechanical. First, there is no Scientifical Proof that our brain generates consciousness. And this is one of the areas i spend most of my time researching.

Second: look at an Idea.

Are you suggesting unconscious material cells in your brain generate something as imaterial as an Idea?

That's exactly what I'm suggesting yes, I'm glad you understand

In the same way a computer makes decisions by compiling yes and no questions, so do neurons generate a charge by compiling incoming charges. The billions of neurons all cooperating, is what makes every decision in your body.

If you learn actions, your brain builds new connections. If you learn ideas, theorys, new languages, your brain links more of those 'unconscious material cells' tougether in a VERY specific network

[icemasterpt]

That's exactly what I'm suggesting yes, I'm glad you understand

In the same way a computer makes decisions by compiling yes and no questions, so do neurons generate a charge by compiling incoming charges. The billions of neurons all cooperating, is what makes every decision in your body.

If you learn actions, your brain builds new connections. If you learn ideas, theorys, new languages, your brain links more of those 'unconscious material cells' tougether in a VERY specific network

ok, if you believe the conscious awareness of your own existence is purely a physical phenomena, then ok.

But still, elephants and Dolphins and crows have higher brain functions, but they lack a sense of Self, which means, u will never see a dolphin discussing the meaning of life with another dolphin, because dolphins dont have a sense of their own existence. ok

U can make a computer program that can do exacly the same think your brain does, but that computer program will never become aware of its own existence. It may create a very realistic simulation of a human brain, but it will lack the "Self"

[Sirrobert]

They do, however they're still brains and if we ignore the vital consequences of this type of surgery the philosophical question remains: Does splitting the brain create two consciousnesses that are independent of one another?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain for my overall query, just taken to a much further degree.

Right, I understand what you mean now.

I don't think that would be the case no. Each brain area controls it's own part. Like in your wiki page, the part that controls speech is located at a very specific point. Severing that area from the rest of the brain would dissable the rest of the brain from speech.

Now there is an exception, if you suffer brain damage at an early age and some areas are damaged, the surviving part of your brain can, over time, take over the lost functions.

So continuing on this exception, if you were to remove (say) half a developing brain from it's skull and place it in a new body where it can continue to function and grow, and somehow ensure both brains and bodys survive, than they might live on and each go theyr own way. Severely cripped though.

[Brabbit1987]

ok, if you believe the conscious awareness of your own existence is purely a physical phenomena, then ok.

But still, elephants and Dolphins and crows have higher brain functions, but they lack a sense of Self, which means, u will never see a dolphin discussing the meaning of life with another dolphin, because dolphins dont have a sense of their own existence. ok

U can make a computer program that can do exacly the same think your brain does, but that computer program will never become aware of its own existence. It may create a very realistic simulation of a human brain, but it will lack the "Self"

Actually you are wrong about that. The reason why they do not have self awareness is because their brains do not have that function. Actually babies do not have this function either till a certain specific age. Not all brains are capable of the same things. Other wise we would have sheep playing KSP right now.

[Sirrobert]

ok, if you believe the conscious awareness of your own existence is purely a physical phenomena, then ok.

But still, elephants and Dolphins and crows have higher brain functions, but they lack a sense of Self, which means, u will never see a dolphin discussing the meaning of life with another dolphin, because dolphins dont have a sense of their own existence. ok

U can make a computer program that can do exacly the same think your brain does, but that computer program will never become aware of its own existence. It may create a very realistic simulation of a human brain, but it will lack the "Self"

Who's not thinking out of the box now?

Have you ever asked a dolphin what it thinks of the meaning of life?

And who's saying we will never develop true AI? Did you check with your time machine?

EDIT: Also what brabbit says, I forgot about that part

[icemasterpt]

Actually you are wrong about that. The reason why they do not have self awareness is because their brains do not have that function. Actually babies do not have this function either till a certain specific age. Not all brains are capable of the same things. Other wise we would have sheep playing KSP right now.

And that brain function is..? xD

also, about Split brain... people that are submitted to a split brain surgery have the two hemispheres disconnected, but still, there is only one " Me" . Those people lose vision from one eye, but can still "Process" whan that eye sees, ignoring that. There are lots of experiments done on split brain patients, but the point is: Even with the brain divided in half, there is still one Self. So if it was possible to Exchange half of my brain with a friend of mine, Me would still be Me, and he will still be He.

edit:

@ Sirrobert

If i ask to a dolphin what is the meaning of life, the most likely answer will be some clicks xD.

And if any animal besides ourselves had a true consciousness, they would start to introspect, and consquently, asking questions about themselves and about their environment, which was never documented from any creature besides humans.

Edited July 15, 2013 by icemasterpt

[Sirrobert]

also, about Split brain... people that are submitted to a split brain surgery have the two hemispheres disconnected, but still, there is only one " Me" . Those people lose vision from one eye, but can still "Process" whan that eye sees, ignoring that. There are lots of experiments done on split brain patients, but the point is: Even with the brain divided in half, there is still one Self. So if it was possible to Exchange half of my brain with a friend of mine, Me would still be Me, and he will still be He.

Well obviously, both halves still control the same body. I thought I already explained how each little part of the brain controls a different part of you

Yup I have. It's post nr. 63 in this thread

[Brabbit1987]

And that brain function is..? xD

also, about Split brain... people that are submitted to a split brain surgery have the two hemispheres disconnected, but still, there is only one " Me" . Those people lose vision from one eye, but can still "Process" whan that eye sees, ignoring that. There are lots of experiments done on split brain patients, but the point is: Even with the brain divided in half, there is still one Self. So if it was possible to Exchange half of my brain with a friend of mine, Me would still be Me, and he will still be He.

http://science.education.nih.gov/supplements/nih2/addiction/activities/lesson1_brainparts.htm#

The frontal lobe of the brain. I do not know the very specifics, you will have to do the research yourself.

[JRF2k]

Yep, I'd do it.

[ecat]

ok, if you believe the conscious awareness of your own existence is purely a physical phenomena, then ok.

But still, elephants and Dolphins and crows have higher brain functions, but they lack a sense of Self, which means, u will never see a dolphin discussing the meaning of life with another dolphin, because dolphins dont have a sense of their own existence. ok"

Here are few dolphins who would like to hear your opinion on their new mirror.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkzFZvInwFo

So, it is believed that dolphins posses at least some level of self-awareness, enough to recognise themselves and pull funny faces for the lulz. And apes? Elephants? Whales? I think we're going to need a bigger mirror.

[Sirrobert]

Here are few dolphins who would like to hear your opinion on their new mirror.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkzFZvInwFo

So, it is believed that dolphins posses at least some level of self-awareness, enough to recognise themselves and pull funny faces for the lulz. And apes? Elephants? Whales? I think we're going to need a bigger mirror.

If I remember correctly, ravens also recognize themselves in a mirror. Or atleast some bird

And thanks for pointing this out, I had completly forgotten about the mirror thing

@ Sirrobert

If i ask to a dolphin what is the meaning of life, the most likely answer will be some clicks xD.

And if any animal besides ourselves had a true consciousness, they would start to introspect, and consquently, asking questions about themselves and about their environment, which was never documented from any creature besides humans.

Again, obviously. We don't speak theyr language

Those clicks dolphins make translate to some pritty complex messages

Edited July 16, 2013 by Sirrobert

[KOCOUR]

If someone offers me immortality, i would of course accept it. It would be stupidest thing ever to refuse.

[Sirrobert]

If someone offers me immortality, i would of course accept it. It would be stupidest thing ever to refuse.

You might wanna rethink that.

Courtesy of Cracked.com, here's what happends:

Okay, after the first, say, few hundred years, everything's still fine and well. You've seen a few generations of people live and die, and had this happen to your family. Oh well, they were likely douches you could live without anyway at some points. Companionship is companionship, or so you think.

Not so fast: You know how when you were younger (by human terms, a child), an hour seemed like forever to you? As people grow, their brain starts to perceive time differently. An hour feels like less time. Now extend that logic to a year, or a decade, or a century. This means that eventually, you will be completely unable to form relationships with human beings because their lives and deaths will flash past you like a tape on fast-forward.

So you'll be forever lonely, by the time you get to know someone he aged and died

[Brabbit1987]

You might wanna rethink that.

Courtesy of Cracked.com, here's what happends:

So you'll be forever lonely, by the time you get to know someone he aged and died

This is based under the assumption you are the only person that is immortal, which I don't think is exactly what we are talking about here.

Also, the way humans perceive time has a lot more to do with what we find exciting and interesting. When you are a child, just about everything is interesting and exciting because there are so many first times for you. So, time feels slower. When you find yourself not doing much day in and day out is when time feels to have sped up, because your brain throws away memories that are useless. If your day is filled with useless boring things, almost the whole day is erased from your memory.

If your day is filled with excitement and adventure, you remember more of the day, thus it feels longer.

Now by all means, this means as you get older, the less and less you experience exciting things because you already have experienced it. But I can almost assure you, to get to the point your talking about would literally take thousands of years unless your just doing absolutely nothing at all. Also again, this would assume you are the only one who is immortal.

[Paprika]

Even if you were the only person to be immortal you'd get used to people dying on you because it'd happen so much (after a certain amount of time)

It sounds a bit cynical but we can get used to anything, so once you got over the first few you'd just get on with it, it'd be like having pets die. Sad, but not the end of the world.