Interesting tidbit about the Apollo 11 mission and the Soviet's simultaneous mission

[mellojoe]

I have read this article twice. It has really taught me how little I know of the Soviet space program, as well as a wonderful glimpse into the two great nations sharing information at a time when their rivalry was at a burning passion. I am inspired to learn more about the Soviets.

It seems their approach was almost Kerbal like. They had many failures, but each taught them much in order to plan for the next. The Luna missions actually remind me of my own KSP trials.

http://www.dvice.com/2013-7-12/when-apollo-11-met-luna-15-orbit-around-moon

[7499275]

Wow! I had no idea the Soviets ever launched this mission :\

Although it is rather interesting I also want to learn more on the Soviet Space Program now. I think it is kind of funny though how we launched a whole two days later I believe it said and still made it there and landed before the Soviets even began landing operations!

[Sid]

I'm just recreating the Soviet era of spaceflight in KSP ( as best I can ) - it IS fascinating.

The Russians, I think were hampered by several things :-

The early death of Korolev, a man who was able not only to design rockets but work around the insane Soviet bureacracy to some extent

Leaders who regarded spaceflight as nothing more than a demonstration of prestige and would put insane deadlines on flights for political reasons

Secrecy and paranoia imposed on the scientists and engineers, preventing the sharing of knowledge

[Kryten]

Leaders who regarded spaceflight as nothing more than a demonstration of prestige and would put insane deadlines on flights for political reasons

Like landing somebody on the Moon before the end of the decade?

()

[Sid]

Like landing somebody on the Moon before the end of the decade?

()

Not exactly - more like " You have 6 months to prepare this flight Comrade, it must be launched to coincide with the elections in Italy, where it will increase the votes of the Communist Party "

I do wonder if the story of Korolev dying while undergoing surgery was a cover-up and he actually died from one too many facepalms...

[The Jedi Master]

Was Luna 15 manned? The article said that it crashed just as Apollo 11 was getting back into orbit around the moon.

[Crush]

Was Luna 15 manned?

No, the Luna probes weren't manned.

But they did a lot of firsts which are often overlooked. The Americans might have been the first and only to actually walk on the moon in person, but the first object to reach the moon was Luna 2, the first pictures of the far side of the moon were taken by Luna 3 and the first soft landing on the moon was Luna 9.

The Soviets also managed to do three sample-return missions from the moon (Luna 16, 20 and 24). Launching an unmanned spacecraft to another celestial body and returning with a soil sample is a feat not reproduced by anyone else to this day. These sample return missions were after Apollo 11, though, so the soil samples weren't that sensational.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Crush

[Sid]

Was Luna 15 manned? The article said that it crashed just as Apollo 11 was getting back into orbit around the moon.

Unmanned sample return probe. Luna 16 was successful. Quite an achievement really and one that the Russians have never really gotten full credit for outside of the space geek community.

[Nikolai]

These sample return missions were after Apollo 11, though, so the soil samples weren't that sensational.

Partly because the regolith samples returned by the Luna probes ranged from 55 to 170 grams, whereas the rock samples returned by the Apollo missions ranged from 22 to 111 kilograms. (One can also get at better unadulterated material in rocks than in regolith.) Also, there were three Luna regolith returns and six Apollo rock returns.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Nikolai
More details on return sizes

[Kryten]

But the development of Luna was considerably more useful, unless people are going to start throwing around tens of billions just for footprints and flags again. Luna ultimately gave us Hayabusa, Genesis, Stardust, et.c whereas Apollo was a giant dead end.

[Galacticruler]

Luna ultimately gave us Hayabusa, Genesis, Stardust, et.c whereas Apollo was a giant dead end.

With a price tag to match.

Also there is the issue of just dumping giant metal tubes and cones into the ocean...

[Sid]

But the development of Luna was considerably more useful, unless people are going to start throwing around tens of billions just for footprints and flags again. Luna ultimately gave us Hayabusa, Genesis, Stardust, et.c whereas Apollo was a giant dead end.

I don't agree with you, but it's very possible you are right and I am wrong...does that make any sense ?

[Nikolai]

But the development of Luna was considerably more useful, unless people are going to start throwing around tens of billions just for footprints and flags again. Luna ultimately gave us Hayabusa, Genesis, Stardust, et.c whereas Apollo was a giant dead end.

Only if you think that the superficial similarity of returning a few sample grains means that these probes owe their existence to Luna. (I challenge you to show how Genesis' sample collection was similar to Luna's, for example, or was in any way derived from Luna's.)

Ultimately, Apollo returned a lot more science than Luna did. Any attempt to create a sustained presence on the Moon will owe a lot more to Apollo than to Luna. I'll grant you that Apollo was not the most economical or sustainable way to get to or study the Moon, but if you want to rate science-return-per-dollar (or ruble) spent, Apollo comes out the clear winner by almost any metric -- information returned, papers generated, jobs created/sustained, or any of many others.

[FleetAdmiralJ]

Not exactly - more like " You have 6 months to prepare this flight Comrade, it must be launched to coincide with the elections in Italy, where it will increase the votes of the Communist Party "

I do wonder if the story of Korolev dying while undergoing surgery was a cover-up and he actually died from one too many facepalms...

This is essentially what happened with Soyuz 1, which killed Vladimir Komarov when his parachutes failed to properly deploy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soyuz_1

Everyone in the program knew Soyuz was a death trap, so much so that Yuri Gagarin, Komarov's backup, tried to supplant him as the main pilot because he knew they would never launch it with him on board. But Communist leaders wanted to launch it to commemorate Lenin's birthday, so they overruled engineer's safety concerns.