With the new SAS and RW system, I miss two parts and two existing parts are obsolete

[Linard]

New SAS and Reaction Wheel system! Great improvement!

ASAS -> SAS

SAS -> Reaction Wheel.

So now RW have a bigger role in the game I miss some parts her:

-RW 2.5m part.

-RW 0.5 probe part.

Also due the change of v0.21.1 that also probes got SAS, you absolutely don't neither the Inline Advanced Stabilitzer (old ASAS 1.5,) nor the ASAS 2.5m. So they should be removed in my opinion (even l'll really really miss them )

What do you guys think?

Linard

Edited July 25, 2013 by Linard

[allmhuran]

A 2.5m reaction wheel would be nice, yeah.

It's also not completely clear (unless you read the forums) what, exactly, all these parts do now. ASAS is redundant if you have a manned pod, and is only needed on probes. That makes the 2.5m SAS module look a little out of place, since 2.5m probes are definitely the exception, not the norm. This also means a 2.5m reaction wheel is way more important to have in the game than a 2.5m SAS module, since bigger ships need more help keeping steady!

[Linard]

How the news system works is kind easy:

First they changed the names:

ASAS -> SAS

SAS -> Reaction Wheel.

Then:

All capsules with space for kerbals include: SAS and RW.

All probes have just RW

The only change on the controll parts was the 1.5 'old' ASAS. Now it has SAS and RW.

The 'old' SAS part still contains just a RW and the 'old' 2.5m ASAS is still just SAS.

[Matt56]

Ya, I had a ton of trouble launching my satellites in my new .21 save. They used to have a small amount of SAS, but now they have none. We definately need at least a .5m ASAS otherwise I will never be able to stop my probe's rotation completely.

[Anton P. Nym]

I'll add another vote for a size 0 ASAS and a size 2 reaction wheel. (I've been jonesing for a 2.5m gyro since first trying out Mainsail engines, though I understand they're not quite so "terror-iffic" in 0.21 as they used to be.

-- Steve

[DMagic]

The 2.5m grey ASAS module has several problems:

The name should be changed. There is no more ASAS functionality, so having a part named ASAS does nothing but confuse people.

The part itself seems to have little legitimate use. The only thing I can understand it being used for is large, 2.5m probes, which lack SAS functionality. But a large 2.5m probe craft is likely to need more reaction wheel torque than is provided by only the probe core. This means that we need to add 1.25m inline reaction wheels. And if we are going to fit those parts in somewhere then we might as well just use the 1.25m inline advanced stabilizer instead of the 2.5m ASAS part.

So if we are going to keep the 2.5m part around, it should have reaction wheel functionality added to it. The name and mass should then be changed accordingly.

[Neomatt]

I really think every command pod (manned or not) should get an ASAS (of course, unmanned probes will consume more electricity if it's on) + reaction wheels.

This way, the old ASAS parts can be removed, and only 0.6m, 1.5m and 2.5m reaction wheels (SAS) are available for addition.

Much easier this way: you get basic control no matter what, and you can improve it with reaction wheels or RCS or winglets or what have you.

[chaos_forge]

I think probe cores should come equipped with SAS. The cores are just computers after all. What do they care if you add another computer to them?

[DMagic]

I think probe cores should come equipped with SAS. The cores are just computers after all. What do they care if you add another computer to them?

I think I agree with this. It may break some people's old .craft files, but this is still very early in development; everyone should expect their saves and crafts to break.

This would reduce the total part load and clear up some confusion about how the new SAS functionality works. Then we could have just three reaction wheel parts. And with the way parts work now we should only need one inline reaction wheel just scaled to three different sizes (0.625m, 1.25m, and 2.5m) with corresponding torque values and mass.

Edit: See here for C7's response about adding SAS to the probe cores.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/42121-What-s-the-justification-for-probes-not-having-SAS?p=542657&viewfull=1#post542657

Edited July 25, 2013 by DMagic

[CaptRobau]

I agree with giving the probes SAS. Real-life probes can also keep a heading without a computer twice its size.

[Anton P. Nym]

If probe controllers get their own SAS, that makes my request for a size 0 SAS moot... and I'm okay with that. It does make sense, in real-world as well as gameplay senses.

-- Steve

[chaos_forge]

Thought I'd leave this here:

Based on feedback we've gotten, I'll be adding sas control to the probes. It should make things a lot easier for everyone.

[Linard]

Ya, I had a ton of trouble launching my satellites in my new .21 save. They used to have a small amount of SAS, but now they have none. We definately need at least a .5m ASAS otherwise I will never be able to stop my probe's rotation completely.

Probes have a RW. They ever had one. I have no idea where the problem lies. But with the .21 all command parts have RW and SAS so they kinda make the 'old' ASAS for both sizes obsolete.

[Designer225]

Probes have RW but not SAS. Not sure if you can still operate it without SAS. I'm going to test it out.

[DMagic]

My suggestion is for something like this to be implemented.

It is a simple rescale of the existing inline reaction wheel. No new parts need to be added, and the two old ASAS parts can be removed. The mass and torque values can be adjusted accordingly.

[Linard]

Probes have RW but not SAS. Not sure if you can still operate it without SAS. I'm going to test it out.

Probes got SAS as well with .21.1

[sephirotic]

I've never get the changes from version .18 onwards in the Reaction Whell and the "attitude lock (i.e. ASAS-now only SAS)". Why was it changed so RW only worked to kill spin made not much sense to me. In fact, i've NEVER actually used the old "kill-spin SAS part" from version 18 up to 0.20". Nothing should stop me to actually use it to provide torque manually. Good thing this is back. Also, i never understood why a simple autopilot computer that the only thing it does is a lock on attitude using already available controls should have such a large part only for itself. I always tought it should be already built in in ALL pods and probes since it should be such an small and simple part irl. I've even tried in previous version add the "asas" line in part.cfg of the pods and ditch the use of such parts only to find very weird strange bugs like the camera/center of mass shifting dowards randomly in the middle of flight or having the asas not working at all.

FWIW I also think the old ASAS (now sas, lets call it: the "attitude lock", also all this name changes is a mess,) should be turned obsolete and ALL control parts should inherited have it. WITH THE EXCEPTION MAYBE of the "control chair".

This would make that cute little AVIONICS nose cone useless, except if you add it together with an nosecone adapter in front of a SRB with a control chair and a pair of cannards, hey that's not a bad idea, right JEB?

-About RW, indeed most interstellar probes in fact have RWs for MICRO-PRECISION adjustment of movents, but smaller probes usually doesn´t have LARGE RW that can be used for a complete 360º steer of the probe since their mass is very small making the use for such thing impratical in the amout of hours for a single turn to be possible.They usually rely on very smal tiny hydrazine rcs motors for steering, in the order of 200~500N depending of the probe size. (this gave me an idea: radian ION engines, usefull for steering! lol)

For gaming mechanic sakes, i personally think smaller lighter probes SHOUDN´T have RW neither any kind of usefull torque at all sice even if they did for such low masses, it wouldn´t provide usefull torque like the original counterparts.

This would actually make the OCTO-core more usefull than only to ard surface area to strap scientific aparatus since from a lightweight standpoint i've always picked the OKTO2.

The bigger probes and ALL pods should have RW but not as much as powerful as the dedicated part, that would make sense on larger rockets and ships.

The large dedicated RW should also draw eletrical resource, just for the sake of realism.

This is my 2 cents in the matter.

[Jpegman]

probe cores already feature reaction wheel by default, and ASAS too (not sure about avionics)