Trying to design a relay network how can i positions the satellites how i want.

[xeomatrix00]

Any tips, mods, guides, tutorials i can read or use. I understand the concepts but new to kerbal is trying to understand how to position even my first sat which im trying to position in orbit but right on top of kerbal base.

Any info greatly apreciated, specially for someone still learning.

Thanks..

Hey if i have to use mechjeb i dont mind at least i can follow it and learn from it as well.

[CptShaky]

For Kerbin: "Geosynchronous orbit is achieved at an altitude of 2 868.75 km and a speed of 1 009.019 m/s." (from the wiki)

http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Geosynchronous_Orbit_%28Math%29

I can't help you more... If you don't have the com relays addon I simply suggest trial and error ! A satellite is lightweight and therefore easy to launch.

[CalculusWarrior]

Firstly, let me welcome you to the forums!

Now, down to business.

This is a good tutorial in getting started with RT. In my experience with the mod, I've found that getting your first satellite in orbit is the toughest, but things become easier as you launch more and more.

There are two approaches one can take when building a relay network: Geosynchronous, and LKO.

Geosynchronous (or kerbosynchronous?) orbit requires you to place three satellites into synchronous orbit above Kerbin, each spaced 120 degrees apart, with one over top of the Kerbin Space Centre. This will ensure that any point on Kerbin's equatorish region and equatorial orbits will have coverage. However, since geosynchronous orbit is reaaaaaally high, you will experience signal delays. (These usually are only ~0.1-0.2 seconds in length, but it acts like lag when controlling your ship, and everybody hates lag).

The other, less laggy version but requiring more work, is the Low Kerbin Orbit approach. In such a strategy, you launch more satellites into a low orbit around Kerbin. This way, even though any one satellite is not stationed over top of KSC at all times, at least one is, and as such you still have contact. You can refer to this tutorial if you want to know precise numbers for your LKO network, but I always like to overestimate the number of sats I put up there to compensate for improper orbits.

MECHJEB ALERT! If you're so inclined, you can use MechJeb to place your sats into absolutely perfect orbits, whether synchronous or not. I did not do this for my network, and it is entirely optional. However, if your geosynchronous orbit is not perfect, over time it will drift relative to the other satellites and the point on the planet's surface it is supposed to be hovering over. (for example: if you timewarp for ~500 days transferring to Eeloo, your satellites will not be in the positions you left them at). A low Kerbin orbit, especially with many satellites is better for this scenario, as there is more room for error.

Lastly, antennas & dishes. This is very important; my first relay satellite had only one satellite dish, and was useless. You want all your ships to have antennas, as they do not require you to manually point them at a target, plus they can send & receive signals. You only want to use dishes to transmit signals farther away than your relay network. If you have a sat farther out than antennas can manage, then you will want to place at least two dishes onto it, one to receive signals from your Kerbin relay network, and one to transmit them further out, for example to the aforementioned Eeloo probe.

So to recap (or TL;DR):

In low Kerbin orbit or synchronous orbit, you want to have a network of small satellites. These will all include antennas and at least one satellite dish. The purpose of these is to take the commanding signal from KSC and be able to transmit it to any craft that goes beyond the horizon (or Sphere of Influence). The craft that flies outward MUST have a satellite dish, which should be pointed at the nearest satellite with a connection to KSC. This will enable the unmanned exploration of Eeloo to continue unabated!

One last thought: an alternative to the two Kerbin relay networks might be to pepper the equator of Kerbin with 'Relay Stations' which include crew and a RemoteCommand module. This will act like another Kerbal Space Centre, providing control to craft within range of its antennas.

Another last thought: RemoteTech 2 is nearing completion and will likely change the way relay networks and other techniques work. As such, this guide won't be very applicable anymore. Just keep that in mind.

I hope this helped, and good luck in creating your vast interplanetary networks of satellites!

[Scorpi15]

This is a guide by youtuber Scott Manley on how to set up a geosynchronous satellite network. Three can cover the whole planet save for polar regions, but you don't need to worry about that just yet.

[Toshogu]

Either you just eyeball it all. Or..... alot of math.

[AnalogAddict]

For stock installs, you can mouse over your ap and pe which will give you a "time to" value. You can add these values to find your period, as Mr. Manley points out in his video, geosync period is 6 hours so for setting up three you want a period of 4 hours so you'll have an even distribution with 2 hours in between each craft. Getting precisely at a 4 and 6 hour period takes some time stock.

Remember if you are 1 minute off (in terms of your period) you'll end up being 1 degree off over one orbit (period of 6h1m yields moving "backwards" in respect to your other craft given eastward orbit, period 5h59m moves "forwards". You can use this effect to your advantage though - should one of your craft be slightly out of alignment, just adjust its period by minuscule amounts and allow it to orbit to maximize your potential delta-v for future corrections.

[Anton P. Nym]

I launched my first geosynch satellite on Monday, and the biggest problem I encountered was that the Ant turns out to be a bit overpowered for the wee thing when trying to adjust orbits by sub-meter/s dVs... and I didn't include RCS, fearing the weight'd eat into my propellant budget. I now have a half-full fuel tank and a lot of tiny micro-burns to perform to get the orbit juuuust right.

-- Steve

[Respawn]

I'm in the process of setting up a GPS network in my game, and i tell you math is the way to go. ^^

You will find most of the math formulas and tables you need on the wiki. Heres a nice one for Kerbin orbits -> Tutorial:_Basic_Orbiting_(Technical)

I love math, however i'm terrible at it.

I find it more fun to figure out on my own, than looking up tables.

---------------------------------

1 Kerbin day is about 6 hours

So if you want a syncronous orbit (1 orbit pr day) (you'll appear to hover over the same spot on kerbins surface).

You'll need a 6 hour orbit.

Here is 1 easy/awesome way of calculating the altitude you'll need:

r = ³√ ((t²xGM)/4pi²) (but you'll have to subtract the planet radius to get the altitude)

==> ³√ = (cuberoot) (couldn't find a cuberoot sign on my keyboard )

==> t²= orbital period in sec times itself.

==> GM= Newtons gravitational constant times the mass of the planet. (Allso its listed in the planet info thingy in map screen)

So.. This is how i would solve this step by step.

6 hours = 60x60x6 = 21600sec

GM kerbin = 6.673848e-¹¹ x 5.292e+²² = 3531800361600 (≈3.532e+¹² which is what the ingame map info thingy says.)

= ³√((21600² x 3531800361600) / 4pi²)

= ³√((466560000 x 3531800361600) / 4pi²)

= ³√(1647796776708096000000 / 4pi²)

= ³√(1647796776708096000000 / 39.478417604357434475337963999505)

= ³√(41739179954523310435.163562754481)

= 3468816.*** meter.

(But remember that is the radius of the orbit. simply subtract 600.000m (kerbins radius) and you'll have your altitude)

3468816 - 600000 = 2868816m (which is only about 400m off what is listed on the wiki)

It will depend on how accurate your numbers are.

With this you can calculate any circular orbit around any planet/moon.

Eliptical orbits however you'll get the average distance (semi-major-axis) (small r + large r)/2

Hope this helped. ^^

Without this game i would never have learned this. <3

Sry about my english its not my native language.

[rosenkranz]

If you're using RT putting your first satellites in LKO is almost impossible because you'll lose contact prior to circularization.

I've found putting one in KSO works better. It'll take a lot more dV but you'll stay in line-of-sight of KSC at all times.

Launch straight up to 50km. Then head pro-grade (which by default should be to the east) and burn until your Ap is 2868.75km. Coast up to that and circularize.

Keep an eye on your orbital period. You're Ap and Pe don't mean as much as your Period. So this satellite should have a period of 6hr.

For your next satellite, if you launch it along the same assent profile you should end up within a few hundred km or so of the first one since it should be stationary. If it's a little farther, it not that big a deal as that orbit has a circumference of almost 11,000km.

From there then burn retro-grade until your orbital period is 5hr. This should be cheap dV wise. What this does is cause this satellite to have a period exactly 1/6th shorter than the first one. With each orbit you'll get 60 deg ahead of the first satellite. So at the second Ap, this satellite will be 120 degrees ahead of the first. Circularize at that Ap to bring your period back up to 6hr.

Do roughly the same for the third satellite. Initial circularization gets you roughly close to the first sat. Do the 5hr period again and after two orbits you'll be close to the second satellite. Go two more and you'll be 120 degrees ahead of it. Circularize at that Ap and you see you have 3 satellites equally spaced around Kerbin.

If you want to be clever. Stack satellites on top of each other and put them all up at once. Circularize, break two off. Switch to the two and do the 5hr thing. Go two orbits and break one off and circularize that one. Switch to the one still on a 5hr orbit, and go another two orbits and circularize that. Profit!

I did it the hard way for Kerbin but for Mun and Minmus I got clever. If I had wanted to be even more clever, i'd have added a forth satellite with a kethane scanner to go into polar orbit (note: that wont work for Kerbin, to much dV needed)

Edited July 31, 2013 by rosenkranz

[Commander Zoom]

A slightly cheaty way (but only slightly, and used only to make up for not being able to set navigational waypoints within the orbital map system) that someone else suggested to me:

First, do your math (see all of the above) to determine where your satellite needs to end up.

Make a very simple target satellite, even just a probe core with nothing attached, and put it on the pad. Use HyperEdit or directly editing the persistence file to put it in orbit at that position.

Now you have something to aim for, and can rendezvous with it (manually, with MechJeb, whatever). Nuzzle up to it as close as you can get, then delete the target.

As long as you put the actual satellite up the hard way, and get it to the target, I personally don't consider this cheating at all.

[xeomatrix00]

Firstly, let me welcome you to the forums!

Now, down to business.

This is a good tutorial in getting started with RT. In my experience with the mod, I've found that getting your first satellite in orbit is the toughest, but things become easier as you launch more and more.

There are two approaches one can take when building a relay network: Geosynchronous, and LKO.

Geosynchronous (or kerbosynchronous?) orbit requires you to place three satellites into synchronous orbit above Kerbin, each spaced 120 degrees apart, with one over top of the Kerbin Space Centre. This will ensure that any point on Kerbin's equatorish region and equatorial orbits will have coverage. However, since geosynchronous orbit is reaaaaaally high, you will experience signal delays. (These usually are only ~0.1-0.2 seconds in length, but it acts like lag when controlling your ship, and everybody hates lag).

The other, less laggy version but requiring more work, is the Low Kerbin Orbit approach. In such a strategy, you launch more satellites into a low orbit around Kerbin. This way, even though any one satellite is not stationed over top of KSC at all times, at least one is, and as such you still have contact. You can refer to this tutorial if you want to know precise numbers for your LKO network, but I always like to overestimate the number of sats I put up there to compensate for improper orbits.

MECHJEB ALERT! If you're so inclined, you can use MechJeb to place your sats into absolutely perfect orbits, whether synchronous or not. I did not do this for my network, and it is entirely optional. However, if your geosynchronous orbit is not perfect, over time it will drift relative to the other satellites and the point on the planet's surface it is supposed to be hovering over. (for example: if you timewarp for ~500 days transferring to Eeloo, your satellites will not be in the positions you left them at). A low Kerbin orbit, especially with many satellites is better for this scenario, as there is more room for error.

Lastly, antennas & dishes. This is very important; my first relay satellite had only one satellite dish, and was useless. You want all your ships to have antennas, as they do not require you to manually point them at a target, plus they can send & receive signals. You only want to use dishes to transmit signals farther away than your relay network. If you have a sat farther out than antennas can manage, then you will want to place at least two dishes onto it, one to receive signals from your Kerbin relay network, and one to transmit them further out, for example to the aforementioned Eeloo probe.

So to recap (or TL;DR):

In low Kerbin orbit or synchronous orbit, you want to have a network of small satellites. These will all include antennas and at least one satellite dish. The purpose of these is to take the commanding signal from KSC and be able to transmit it to any craft that goes beyond the horizon (or Sphere of Influence). The craft that flies outward MUST have a satellite dish, which should be pointed at the nearest satellite with a connection to KSC. This will enable the unmanned exploration of Eeloo to continue unabated!

One last thought: an alternative to the two Kerbin relay networks might be to pepper the equator of Kerbin with 'Relay Stations' which include crew and a RemoteCommand module. This will act like another Kerbal Space Centre, providing control to craft within range of its antennas.

Another last thought: RemoteTech 2 is nearing completion and will likely change the way relay networks and other techniques work. As such, this guide won't be very applicable anymore. Just keep that in mind.

I hope this helped, and good luck in creating your vast interplanetary networks of satellites!

Thank You so much for the explanation you really pointed out a lot of questions i had.

[xeomatrix00]

A slightly cheaty way (but only slightly, and used only to make up for not being able to set navigational waypoints within the orbital map system) that someone else suggested to me:

First, do your math (see all of the above) to determine where your satellite needs to end up.

Make a very simple target satellite, even just a probe core with nothing attached, and put it on the pad. Use HyperEdit or directly editing the persistence file to put it in orbit at that position.

Now you have something to aim for, and can rendezvous with it (manually, with MechJeb, whatever). Nuzzle up to it as close as you can get, then delete the target.

As long as you put the actual satellite up the hard way, and get it to the target, I personally don't consider this cheating at all.

Interesting option i will consider that as well.

[xeomatrix00]

Wow, guys thanks for the feedback so far. I will study this and see how it goes.

[xeomatrix00]

From what i gather from you guys and reading around, it would be best for me to wait for RT2 sense it looks like if I design something now when i update RT1 > RT2 it will break my save sametime RT2 has so many changes who knows what would be the aproach to design a network with it, maybe same thing or maybe more options on the aproach.

[Frederf]

I'm waiting for RT2. You can build useless sats just for practice. Getting a tetrahedral constellation without gaps at near minimum altitude is no easy feat.