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[0.25]KSP Interstellar (Magnetic Nozzles, ISRU Revamp) Version 0.13

Fractal_UK

By Fractal_UK
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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TheShandyMan

TheShandyMan

Posted
Posted

So I've only recently really started to use the features KSPI has. Or rather; I'm attempting to use them.

I'm trying to setup a solar-based power network and the documentation is lacking (I know; the wiki is out of date). It took me quite a while before realizing that transmission output is tied to storage capacity on the array itself; which wasn't intuitive (8X of the OKEB-250's from NearFuture; at some insanely close distance from Kerbol was only giving me ~800KW of output until I tried spamming more batteries; now I get ~5GW).

Where I'm now stuck however; is in "getting" that power to use. No matter what I do; nothing can receive what my arrays in Kerbol orit are transmitting. I even went so far as to make a "stock" install (Just KSPI and HyperEdit for testing); slapped together a basic Sat with like 200K EC storage + 8 of the Gigantor Arrays and put it in Kerbol orbit at ~3.75mm. With the large transmitter this gets me ~380MW when the solar panels are directly facing Kerbol. I then sent up a second Sat; put it ~75m away from the first; set to receive and bupkis.

This is a picture of the transmitter

This is the receiver

Relevant .craft file of the satelite

Long story short I don't know what I'm doing wrong here. I've been reading the thread the last few weeks; I have the latest version I've seen linked on the current Steam version of KSP. This log snip shows some errors for KSPI but it's complaining about ArcJets and Fission reactors; not anything to do with the Array's........

I'm sure it's something absolutely silly that I'm forgetting to do but for the life of me I can't figure it out.

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philotical

philotical

Posted
Posted (edited)
My apologies! :o Does this prevent tweakibility as well?

use module manager like this:

@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[UF4]
{
  @transfer = NONE
  @isTweakable = false
}

etc..

that should prevent VAB tweaks..

look in GameData\WarpPlugin\Parts\Resources\ResourcesNuclear.cfg

for exact names

HTH

Edited by philotical
added additional info
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artforz

artforz

Posted
Posted
Should it? I mean...I wouldn't be totally against such a thing but...radiators used in space don't emit photons in the visible spectrum. At least, none that I know of. They don't actually...glow. http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/473486main_iss_atcs_overview.pdf

At its peak 3500K, a upgraded KSPI radiator is hotter than the filament in a halogen bulb. Those do actually... glow.

Less snarky, let's go with the wiki figures for a standard fold-out: 3403.64MW, 400m^2, 3500K.

At ~ 8.5MW/m^2 and assuming a emission spectrum close to a black body, that'd be a rather impressive source of yellowish-white light...

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undercoveryankee

undercoveryankee

Posted
Posted

As a rule of thumb, visible light from a hot surface becomes noticeable at a temperature around 798 K ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draper_point ). The emissive on the flat radiators looks pretty good for their unupgraded max temperature of 1,350.

Upgraded radiators can be pushed over 3,000 K. That would be about the color of a basic tungsten light bulb. If we could animate that, it would give a visual sense of the kind of energy we're talking about.

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singlet

singlet

Posted
Posted

Fractal_UK seems to be uninterested in my proposal, so I decided to modify my copy of KSPI for myself to implement my proposed solution. It took a bit of time for me to do it because I have no previous experience with C#, but now I have a working version and it turned out to require only a small modification. Not thoroughly tested, but it seems to work as I expected. While it was written only for my personal use, I post it here just in case anybody is interested.

diff --git a/FNPlugin/FNImpactorModule.cs b/FNPlugin/FNImpactorModule.cs
index 1dfee87..6c93885 100644
--- a/FNPlugin/FNImpactorModule.cs
+++ b/FNPlugin/FNImpactorModule.cs
@@ -151,8 +151,6 @@ namespace FNPlugin {
             net_science = Math.Min(net_science, initial_science * 3.5); // no more than 3.5x boost to science by using multiple detectors
             if (net_science > 0 && !double.IsInfinity(net_science) && !double.IsNaN(net_science)) {

-                double science_coeff = -science_experiment_number / 2.0;
-                net_science = net_science * Math.Exp(science_coeff);
                 ScreenMessages.PostScreenMessage("Impact Recorded, science report can now be accessed from one of your accelerometers deployed on this body.", 5f, ScreenMessageStyle.UPPER_CENTER);
                 this.lastImpactTime = Planetarium.GetUniversalTime();
                 Debug.Log("[KSP Interstellar] Impactor: Impact registered!");
diff --git a/FNPlugin/FNSeismicProbe.cs b/FNPlugin/FNSeismicProbe.cs
index bb5bd05..995c568 100644
--- a/FNPlugin/FNSeismicProbe.cs
+++ b/FNPlugin/FNSeismicProbe.cs
@@ -87,11 +87,12 @@ namespace FNPlugin {
                                 return false;
                             }
                             result_string =  vessel_name + " impacted into " + vessel.mainBody.name + " producing seismic activity.  From this data, information on the structure of " + vessel.mainBody.name + "'s crust can be determined.";
+                            subject.scienceCap = 50 * PluginHelper.getImpactorScienceMultiplier(vessel.mainBody.flightGlobalsIndex)*10;
+                            science_amount *= (subject.scienceCap-subject.science)/subject.scienceCap;
                             transmit_value = science_amount;
                             recovery_value = science_amount;
                             subject.subjectValue = 1;
                             subject.scientificValue = 1;
-                            subject.scienceCap = 50 * PluginHelper.getImpactorScienceMultiplier(vessel.mainBody.flightGlobalsIndex)*10;
                             //subject.science = 0;
                             data_size = science_amount * 2.5f;
                             science_data = new ScienceData(science_amount, 1, 0, subject.id, "Impactor Data");

This modification will change the impacter experiment mechanics and will eliminate the permanent loss of science. (The bars in the Science Archives will show the correct status of science progression as a bonus.)

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WaveFunctionP

WaveFunctionP

Posted
Posted (edited)
@WaveFunctionP:

I still seem to have a problem with fusion power plants and power transmission:

http://imgur.com/a/trXvC

As you can see in the first image, current supply doesn't reach the theoretical supply and I have a net power loss @96% usage.

I have to tweak down the transmitter to ~86% to keep the power plant alive (2nd image).

I'm addressing this to you since I'm using your experimental branch (directly compiled from git), but as far as I know your automatic throttling doesn't come into play at all.

A feature request: Do you think it's possible to add a "Available network power" info to the management display? With your automatic throttle it's hard to determine what my theoretical peak power is.

Strange, afaik, I haven't touched anything related to reactor power. I've been busy working on my science addon, so I haven't messed around with power networks much in playtesting. I'll take a look at it.

Edited by WaveFunctionP
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Doktor_Zhivago

Doktor_Zhivago

Posted
Posted

Stupid question time again! I've been searching the thread and i can't find the exact answer I'm looking for :(

Will the KAS pipe attachments allow transfer of megajoules between two or more landers on the surface of say, the Mun? For example a lander that's just a reactor/generator and a second one nearby that has the refinery or science lab. I know it treats two ships like they're docked together but I'm not 100% sure on interstellar compatibility.

Also will i need to manually transfer fuel/resources between the refinery and docked empty tanks and/or setup fuel lines? Or will the refinery automatically fill the tanks docked to it

Lack of EVA jetpack packs makes ground testing on Kerbin pretty tedious so I wanted to check before i spent a couple hours putzing around at KSC all night messing with pipes.

Thanks!

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phoenix_ca

phoenix_ca

Posted
Posted

Resources are resources. I certainly can't think of a reason they wouldn't transfer. Not unless there's some code in KSPI that would prevent it. Then again, MJ is more...involved than stock resources. So that could well be the case.

And if testing is what you're after...you should consider HyperEdit. It'll save you time.

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Atrius129

Atrius129

Posted
Posted

@TheShandyMan

Can you post picture of the transmitter ship that we can see more clearly? Maybe open your Megajoules Manager and Resource tab.

I find it strange that there is no "disable transmitter" button on the transmitter window you have open.

I know I sometimes see issues when the transmitter/receivers are that close to each other. As far as beaming to Kerbin, 300MW at that distance would be practically useless. When you compare it to an unupgraded fission reactor's 3 GW of power, and the time needed to get a craft into low Kerbol orbit, solar arrays start seeming rather trivial. Still they are pretty awesome, and a perfectly valid way of generating power. I would recommend you use more panels, or download the Balka arrays from the KOSMOS package. Those things are. Serious.

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jinks

jinks

Posted
Posted

OK, I did a bit more generator testing, this time with the official 0.11 release.

The problem only occurs with 2 generators (DC and KTEC) connected to the same reactor. It seems that the DC generator somehow "saps" thermal power from the KTEC.

My test setup is a 2.5m Sethlans 2 fission reactor with one type of generator on each end. I get max power of 895 MW_e from the DC generator and 716 MW_e from the KTEC. Each generator separately actually supplies that power to the transmitter at 100%.

If I turn on both generators at the same time, the DC one remains at peak output, but the KTEC drops to about 129 MW_e and I end up with a deficit in my supply to the transmitter. (In his particular setup I have to tweak down the transmitter to ~60% to not lose any power.)

Since I could now confirm it in the official version: Fractal? Any idea? :)

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Einarr

Einarr

Posted
Posted

Reactors do produce a limited amount of Thermal Power, so it makes sense that having two generators that use TP might have this sort of issue.

@WaveFunctionP: So, I've got Advanced Fusion Power now...care to explain how that interplanetary science ship of yours is constructed?

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artforz

artforz

Posted
Posted
OK, I did a bit more generator testing, this time with the official 0.11 release.

The problem only occurs with 2 generators (DC and KTEC) connected to the same reactor. It seems that the DC generator somehow "saps" thermal power from the KTEC.

My test setup is a 2.5m Sethlans 2 fission reactor with one type of generator on each end. I get max power of 895 MW_e from the DC generator and 716 MW_e from the KTEC. Each generator separately actually supplies that power to the transmitter at 100%.

If I turn on both generators at the same time, the DC one remains at peak output, but the KTEC drops to about 129 MW_e and I end up with a deficit in my supply to the transmitter. (In his particular setup I have to tweak down the transmitter to ~60% to not lose any power.)

Since I could now confirm it in the official version: Fractal? Any idea? :)

Those numbers look correct.

Thermal Generators can use ThermalPower and ChargedParticles, and for determining their max power they assume they can get all of both.

If there is a DC generator, that gets dibs on the ChargedParticles, leaving only ThermalPower for the thermal gen.

So let's look at that upgraded Sethlans2:

1285MW total with 82% of it ChargedParticles. So that's 1053.7 ChargedPower and 231.3 ThermalPower.

With just a KTEC, it gets all of both and converts it. Assuming enough radiators and sitting on the launchpad, it's ~55.7% efficient. 1285 * 0.557 = ~716. So that looks right.

With just a DC, it gets the 1053.7 ChargedPower, converts that at 85% efficiency. 1053.7 * 0.85 = ~ 896. The 231.3 ThermalPower aren't used at all. So that looks right, too.

With a KTEC + DC, the DC still gets the ChargedPower, producing ~896MW. The KTEC gets the ThermalPower, 231.3 * 0.557 = ~129MW. Again, looks right.

Oh, and with KTEC + DC, the generators really can output over 1.6GW combined. For half a second or so until the ChargedPower/ThermalPower buffers are depleted.

So I'm guessing the problem is "100% transmitter setting is the sum of peak output of all active generators"?

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WaveFunctionP

WaveFunctionP

Posted
Posted
OK, I did a bit more generator testing, this time with the official 0.11 release.

The problem only occurs with 2 generators (DC and KTEC) connected to the same reactor. It seems that the DC generator somehow "saps" thermal power from the KTEC.

My test setup is a 2.5m Sethlans 2 fission reactor with one type of generator on each end. I get max power of 895 MW_e from the DC generator and 716 MW_e from the KTEC. Each generator separately actually supplies that power to the transmitter at 100%.

If I turn on both generators at the same time, the DC one remains at peak output, but the KTEC drops to about 129 MW_e and I end up with a deficit in my supply to the transmitter. (In his particular setup I have to tweak down the transmitter to ~60% to not lose any power.)

Since I could now confirm it in the official version: Fractal? Any idea? :)

I can confirm that this is the behavior in stock KSPI.

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WaveFunctionP

WaveFunctionP

Posted
Posted (edited)
Reactors do produce a limited amount of Thermal Power, so it makes sense that having two generators that use TP might have this sort of issue.

@WaveFunctionP: So, I've got Advanced Fusion Power now...care to explain how that interplanetary science ship of yours is constructed?

Some reactors produce a portion of their power as charged particles. A generator set to direct conversion must be used to convert this output to MJ. I'll be covering this in my next video. This is why two generators is useful, one for charged particle output and one for the thermal power output.

I no longer have the craft files for the Prometheus. It ended up being 3 3.75 fusion reactors, with 3 thermal nozzles, 2 vista engines under side mounted tanks, ISRUs connecting them all together, small tanks underneath the vistas to keep them from overheating, and another above the center fusion reactor to balance fuel transfer, and ensure that the ISRU's output their fuel properly, topped off with a command module and mobile science lab, and science lab for kicks, parachutes for atmo landings, landing gear and enough reaction wheels to turn the beast.

Edited by WaveFunctionP
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Sokar408

Sokar408

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have been missing around with the reactors to try and figure out how to use the refuel and fuel swap options. I noticed something a bit off. When I switched from UF4 to ThF4, the reactor loaded up 4000/3000 Thf4, and when I started the reactor up, it went down to 3000/3000. But instead of putting the 1000 remaining ThF4 into the storage tanks, it simply disappeared. Is this a bug or did I do something wrong?

Also, what is the reason being Helium3 not being produced outside active vessels?

Edited by Sokar408
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koksny

koksny

Posted
Posted

I just noticed flying back from Minmus that reported radiation in Minmus orbit is... 250 Sv/h. And that is really insane, it's 5 times Chernobyl meltdown. Is it intended? Or is there just some radiation belt? And how to shield from it?

And i know it doesn't kill Kerbals (yet), but it would be nice to have at least some early tools to counter it. Or is it just bug? Because, really... 250sv/h? The hell? Suddenly Minmus is one of the most deadly places in Kerbol system...

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phoenix_ca

phoenix_ca

Posted
Posted (edited)

The radiation numbers mean absolutely nothing. Pretty much none of that has been implemented. There'll probably be ways to counteract it, once it actually matters.

Sokar: that's a bug I think. Scott Manly has a video up (somewhere) in which the same bug struck. My suggestion would be to use a mod like TAC Fuel Balancer, Ship Manifest, or both, to more accurately control resource distribution.

Edited by phoenix_ca
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Sokar408

Sokar408

Posted
Posted
The radiation numbers mean absolutely nothing. Pretty much none of that has been implemented. There'll probably be ways to counteract it, once it actually matters.

Sokar: that's a bug I think. Scott Manly has a video up (somewhere) in which the same bug struck. My suggestion would be to use a mod like TAC Fuel Balancer, Ship Manifest, or both, to more accurately control resource distribution.

Is that even possible? and if so, how do you switch fuel type? :o

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artforz

artforz

Posted
Posted
I have been missing around with the reactors to try and figure out how to use the refuel and fuel swap options. I noticed something a bit off. When I switched from UF4 to ThF4, the reactor loaded up 4000/3000 Thf4, and when I started the reactor up, it went down to 3000/3000. But instead of putting the 1000 remaining ThF4 into the storage tanks, it simply disappeared. Is this a bug or did I do something wrong?

Bug.

In FNNuclearReactor.cs RefuelUranium()/RefuelThorium()

double spare_capacity_for_uf6 = uf4.maxAmount - actinides.amount;

should be 

double spare_capacity_for_uf6 = Math.Max(uf4.maxAmount - uf4.amount - actinides.amount, 0);

similar for Thorium.

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phoenix_ca

phoenix_ca

Posted
Posted (edited)
so my game is crashing when i get to the end of the loading bar and it's on warp plugin could interstellar be the casue of the crash? and does anyone know how to read crash files?

If the first few lines of the crash log reference an Access Violation Error, then that's a RAM limit crash. Use Active Texture Management, a texture reduction pack, reduce texture sizes in KSP's settings, remove mods, or a combination thereof. Until Unity is (finally) updated to offer 64-bit compilation that's actually stable for Windows and OS X (it's actually just fine on Linux, apparently), we're stuck with those options.

Thankfully, Unity 5 is expected sometime this year (ish). Assuming Squad gets their paws on it and updates KSP, these errors will finally be a thing of the past.

Is that even possible? and if so, how do you switch fuel type? :o

I assume you'd still switch fuel type normally, but you could then remove the excess using one of those mods. Probably. It's worth trying at least.

Edited by phoenix_ca
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