Lagrange Points: Could Squad "cheat" them in?

[sojourner]

OK, we all know that Lagrange points in the real world are a result of N-body physics. Something not modeled in the game. But could Squad "cheat" them into the game? Maybe basically add small gravity wells in the locations where these points would be and make them artificially stable to that location? Would it be difficult to do? Would it add too many new "locations" to the game?

Thoughts?

[Themohawkninja]

I've thought about this, but the problem lies in the fact that there are floating point errors that perturb orbits over time.

[sojourner]

I'm not sure how that relates in this situation?

[Themohawkninja]

I'm not sure how that relates in this situation?

The errors could/would eventually push the craft out of the Lagrange point.

[lazarus1024]

Probably not worth the effort to introduce. That is 5 points per body, times the number of bodies there are (including the moons). Also if you wanted to model them even modestly correctly, some are stable and some are unstable points. I don't think you could accurately model the unstable points...well, not by "cheating" them in. You could possibly model in the stable L points, by creating a gavity point with very low gravity and SOI. Downside is, I don't think you'd still have even remotely close to an accurate model, as you'd be influenced by the current SOI gravity well significantly more than you would...and then BAM you enter the small SOI of the L point.

I think they'd have to go to an n-body gravity system to model any of them with even remote accuracy and I don't know that it adds all that much to the game compared to the current system. Not that it isn't possible or have some perks, but the current single body gravity system is rather straight forward and works for the game.

Not that I haven't thought how fun it would be to park a station at the L3/4/5 points (L1 and 2 being unstable and possibly not being able to be modeled accurately within the game).

[rpayne88]

OK, we all know that Lagrange points in the real world are a result of N-body physics. Something not modeled in the game. But could Squad "cheat" them into the game? Maybe basically add small gravity wells in the locations where these points would be and make them artificially stable to that location? Would it be difficult to do? Would it add too many new "locations" to the game?

Thoughts?

The problems with L points are that you are being influenced by two SOIs at the same time. If they were implemented in the game, you would also have to take into account the subtle affect on your orbit due to every object in the game. Meaning your LKO station would be slightly affected by Elloo. That means several million calculations per second for your processor. In other words, it would KILL your CPU. To remedy this, Squad had made it so it is only possible to be affected by one SOI at a time. This makes L points impossible in KSP. Undoubtedly, Squad would add L points if the math involved could be easily preformed by most computers.

[Ralathon]

A small gravity well has a completely different profile than a lagrange point.

A gravity well like a planet or a moon generates (and the ones we use in KSP) have the same profile as a whirlpool. It gets progressively stronger as you get closer to the center. A Lagrange point has a shape more resembling a bowl (for L4 and L5) or a saddle (for the others). Having a tiny gravity well is more akin to a black hole. Your ship is going to do some fancy maneuvering if it gets anywhere near the center of the well. Squad would have to reprogram the entire SoI engine to get this working.

[Xaiier]

Threads like these are filled with three kinds of people:

1. Those who like this idea

2. Those who like this idea but realize that its not quite as simple as that

3. Those who have no clue what they are talking about

Anyways, L4+5 already "exist" as stable locations in the game, due to the current SOI system (in fact you can do a lot that shouldn't be possible with the current system) and L1-3 are unstable and thus the small low gravity SOI isn't a accurate representation.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Xaiier

[Unit327]

Sorry for resurrecting the thread, but I think this might doable in a mod (assuming they can add sphere's of influence). Hell, even just put a small asteroid on rails with a 10km SOI where L1 would be, then you can just orbit that as normal. It's not realistic but it might be fun. The asteroid's orbit might look weird (being the same peroid as the mun but much closer in to kerbin) but by my understanding the "on rails" nature of planets and moons don't need to follow newton's laws anyway.

-snip-

Edited August 12, 2014 by KasperVld

[Iron4venger]

I arrived at the idea of deploying asteroids on rails where the L points should go, however, i did my maths and the only places where L points makes sense in game, are those opposite the body and the two at 60- angle, which of course involves the interesting fact that you crowd space with another 3 objects per planet. (its impossible to add them at some points due soi interferences. and of course to add them all at all moons), which leads to more demanding pcs for similar ingame performane, just to have an interstellar highway that pretty much will nobody use due inherent slowness and required use of ions to make any sense. Bear also that asteroids Soi are so small that was pretty much a miracle to get an encounter, and we havent talked about using them as navigation points yet, (you still need to spend all your Av and then some more to do something with them)

¿Why? Because I modded the game with asteroids to get exactly this, and the results are quite far from 'fun' :/

Yeah, some people actually stopped talking and did the homework.

¿Can be done the 'hack' way? Hell yes, ¿I would add it? Maybe in the FAR future, at least not before implement othet stars, solar sails, fixing the ramjet intake, adding re.entry dmg, balancing game money, more stock parts, kermans supplies, aerodynamics fixes, planet rings, asteroids, planet discovery system etc etc etc etc

Edited November 1, 2013 by Iron4venger

[_Augustus_]

Creating small objects, making them and their orbits invisible and removing their collision mesh would work. I want to be able to make binary gas planets

[KasperVld]

Thread closed, it's very old, in the wrong forum and if you look at the Suggestions & Development Discussion forum you'll find this topic on the what-not-to-suggest list.