Fastest Atmospheric Plane

[Tosh]

Well I hate to have to admit defeat but I can\'t duplicate or exceed your results as the thrust exceeds the structural strength between the wing and fuselage even at higher altitudes whether I use your design or a modified KX-19. I wonder if I have the latest C7 files, perhaps C7 increased the structural strength of the wings?

Nope, seems that 2.1 is still the latest version.

Try usin\' struts. More struts.

BTW I too have had, eh, \'minor difficulties\' building a stable plane. They just fell apart, just like this:

Even in spite of struts.

The KX-19 was at the structural strength borderline - it always self destructed the very instant fuel ran out as it couldn\'t withstand the deceleration.

Yep. I\'d same thing. Always torn into pieces when fuel\'s out.

[Omnivore]

Hmm well I used the same strut config as shown in your photos - still comes apart - even tried additional struts to control wing wobble. Eh well, I had in fact, tried an identical configuration to your last one as it was the obvious next step, prior to submitting the KX-19 results - but I was never able to get the self-destruct under control. I guess I underestimated your engineering talents, congrats.

[Technical Ben]

Can we jettison the entire aircraft then land?

[Tosh]

BTW, as far as I understand the rules, noone requires the plane to survive the record flight. It lands? Very well. It can achieve (censored) high speed? OK then. Who gives a (censored) what happens after the plane has done with that \'high speed\'? And that the landing\'s occured in another flight?

Can we jettison the entire aircraft then land?

Seems that we can. As long as we land horizontally

Hmm well I used the same strut config as shown in your photos - still comes apart - even tried additional struts to control wing wobble. Eh well, I had in fact, tried an identical configuration to your last one as it was the obvious next step, prior to submitting the KX-19 results - but I was never able to get the self-destruct under control. I guess I underestimated your engineering talents, congrats.

It was luck, not \'engineering talents\'. When I tried to slightly modify my last plane, just moved a wing a bit -- she began to self-destruct, and I could not return her to flyable state. You see, that \'wobbling\' is currently quite unpredictable :-\.

But wait; I\'ve found an original Mermaid plane, with her wings still in the right place! She flies and lands, I\'ve just checked that up. Here she is. C7, Silisko, NovaPunch.

Launch on first engine group, at no more than 10% throttle. Travel to turning point at 120-150 m/s to conserve fuel. Plan the turning point at 5000 m from KSC (see \'ground distance covered\' in mission override window) to achieve top speed somewhere above the launch site. Before speeding up (and engaging second engine group) set pitch angle to 0° (or just a cunt hair less) -- and do that at approx. 900 m.

Be advised that The Mermaid also does not love to land, and can circulate at 90 m and 20-30 m/s for hours. She\'s also quite unstable in her landing configuration, so steer with caution. Touchdown at no more than 16-18 m/s.

UPDATE. Looks I finally realize what\'s killin\' our planes. It\'s not deceleration, it\'s spin.

Note that The Mermaid is redundantly statically stable with full fuel tanks (note how heavily she pitches her nose up!), and slightly unstable with her tanks empty. If an aerodynamic center is moved forward even slightly, the plane becomes considerably unstable when fuel runs out, and goes into spin. Into very high speed spin.

Try to build statically stable planes, even at the cost of maneuverability.

[GroundHOG2010]

Can we jettison the entire aircraft then land?

Of course you can, if you have the computer power and the designs right for it...

[Damonjay]

firstly i would like to apologise, i didn\'t realise you didn\'t know that if anything mentioning the Creator or original designer is manners more then anything.

Im currently working on something when it gets finalised i will post it. although we are definitely hitting a barrier.

mm tosh for me its speed. whats happening is the base cant keep up with the wings. and so they get ripped off

also having an aircraft that jettisons isnt worth the weight that it will add to the ship. (you would need the biggest collection of engines just to make up for the decoupler and landing wings)

[Tosh]

mm tosh for me its speed. whats happening is the base cant keep up with the wings. and so they get ripped off

Wings can withstand any speed as long as plane\'s flying straight. If this mothef*cker ever begins to rotate along any axis -- skewed air flow tear everything off.

Look at the screenshot above. That one\'s withstanded 1K+; then speed has dropped to 690, and -- ooops! -- she\'s died. And navball markers show that she\'s been rotating when it\'s happened.

Im currently working on something when it gets finalised i will post it.

Good luck). That would be interesting to look at

[GroundHOG2010]

Thanks Tosh for furthering the cause of science.

[Tosh]

Thanks Tosh for furthering the cause of science.

Hope that gonna help to clock another 1m/s

[Iskierka]

The lag problem isn\'t to do with the craft, I\'ll point out. Or at least not its size. The problem is that the terrain generator isn\'t made for generating at 1 km/s from 1 km away.

[Tosh]

The lag problem isn\'t to do with the craft, I\'ll point out. Or at least not its size. The problem is that the terrain generator isn\'t made for generating at 1 km/s from 1 km away.

Well... then take The Mermaid plane (posted above), add 16 more struts and compare FPS

_{it lags badly even at 100 m/s}

Terrain lag is surely an issue. But as for this challenge we generally don\'t control the plane as it runs at 1 km/s (pitch it just a little -- and it\'s instantly torn into pieces!). And moreover, the plane runs at 1 km/s for only a split second before the fuel goes off. So terrain lag does not matter here.

But it becomes quite a problem when flying low around the Mun. The ship must be controlled there.

[Phoxtane]

Guess what I found:

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=2507.0

My old thread! It\'s definitely outdated, but it\'s along more or less the same lines with much lighter rules.

[GroundHOG2010]

Very light rules compared to this. But that allows for high altitude attempts which are great. But I have gotten to 3000 ms^-1 at the same altitude. This competition is designed for a challenge not to see who is the fastest but how fast one can go bellow 1000 m.

[Omnivore]

This competition is designed for a challenge not to see who is the fastest but how fast one can go bellow 1000 m.

And that\'s what broke my heart with this run:

[Tosh]

And that\'s what broke my heart with this run:

My condolences. I\'ve also seen lots of such a runs. Say, 1168 m/s @ 1015 m... :

[GroundHOG2010]

And that\'s what broke my heart with this run:

I will have to offer my condolences as well.

[NovaSilisko]

I tried again earlier today...

Not very fast, and poor acceleration but it\'s actually a good aircraft for normal flight.

[Tosh]

I tried again earlier today...

Not very fast, and poor acceleration but it\'s actually a good aircraft for normal flight.

I\'d suggest using C7\'s massive wings for normal flight. Highest ceiling, lowest stall speed, thus lowest fuel consumption... Something like this --

-- but with landing gear and without a rocket))

[Iskierka]

I\'ve been making my own attempts at this.

It\'s a bit of a challenge knowing where to start from to be over KSC though. And the landing gear gives a bit of drag.

Are water landings allowed?

(I changed to the large wings because they\'re actually less draggy, and let you mount controls further back for more authority.)

[Tosh]

Second one is really elegant! At what speed did she land? And did you use RCS when landing?

And what speed is indicated in first image? ???

_{BTW I wonder was an RCS landing allowed...}

[Iskierka]

RCS burned out completely in the speed run. Can\'t say precisely what the touchdown speed was, but it was somewhere between 30 and 40 m/s; it could\'ve gone slower, but there wasn\'t enough control authority to keep it airborne until more speed was lost, so the lower wings of the X were lost. (The rules don\'t require a 100% clean touchdown as I recall)

Just as an extra, the pad configuration:

Yep, just one boost tank. That thing will actually take it quite a ways from KSC, if flown efficiently; just need to figure out WHERE to take it to for a proper run with peak speed over KSC.

[Technical Ben]

What mod are you using for that? None of the engines I have even go faster than 300m/s in the atmosphere.

[GroundHOG2010]

Can aircraft land on water? Yes.

Can an aircraft use rcs to land? So long as there is forward momentum, yes.

[Iskierka]

I\'m just using C7, and stock for the decoupler.

Awesome for water landings though, that means an extra 0.2 off drag coeff, very helpful.

[NovaSilisko]

KSC terrain extends quite a ways to the left (from default camera angle), should be a good position for speed runs.