3DConnexion gear (Space Navigator, SpaceMouse Pro, etc)

[niv]

Hi guys,

I've done some research on using the 3DConnexion 3D mouse gear (6-axis controllers) for controlling KSP. Since the latest beta drivers, 3dconnexion gear supports emulating a HID joystick device, which in theory should work fine with all games supporting joystick axis binding.

However, there's a slight incompatibility (or maybe not so slight) that will have the keen observer notice that all axises bound to a 3d mouse will immediately jump to the left, and stay there, which does not actually help with flying spacecrafts as much as my enthusiasm about my new equipment led me to believe.

With the help of the 3dconnexion forums, I found out that newer HID Joystick devices have signed values for axises with a center point at 0 (and this applies to the 3d mouse also); whereas old joysticks used to go from 0 to 255 only with a center of 127/8. The change was presumably made to support greater precision than 8 bit. (I've actually tested KSP with the HOTAS Warthog from TM and it displays the same issues)

I assume that KSP joystick axises start at 0 as well with a axis range of 255. I'm not sure if it's Unity itself that is doing the joystick parsing/mapping, or KSP that is not taking newer devices into consideration, but the fix should be fairly simple.

FWIW, under OSX at least you can use ControllerMate to adjust axis values (which I've verified to work awesomely fine), but I don't know of any Windows tools that will do that for me, so I'm stuck with using keyboard emulation ..

Hopefully this bit of research helps the devs should they be so inclined to support these awesome devices (and other joysticks). Even just a simple calibration offset configurable in settings.cfg would do fine.

Alternatively, I guess one could use the 3DConnexion SDK to natively implement support for the 3d mouse. I suspect it would be really awesome in the SPH or VAB. - but I doubt that's possible with a plugin.

Reference: http://www.3dconnexion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=7305

[Ghost Leviathan]

I just bought the space navigator. any chance you could get some help in setting it up?

[CaptainBullet]

I have one of those things as well, and encounterd the same problems. Thanx for the investigation, maybe that will get fixed at some point *fingers crossed*

Emulating the keyboard helps me a lot for docking and controlling in general, but its still only pressing buttons for me and I'd love to have "analog" controll over my spacecraft.

I'm afraid these 3Dmouses are not widely-used enough to be considered for support by the busy devs (can't wait for 0.22, yay) but it would be such a nice feature, for I think they are the best way of controlling KSP. My mouse sais "SpacePilot" on the box for godsake, its made for that game (I'v got the old one, not the fancy new "pro" unfortunately)

Maybe a fiew more Posts in this thread might raise awareness.

I just bought the space navigator. any chance you could get some help in setting it up?

bit late, I know... but just go to the website of 3Dconnexion and download the driver software and try it out. it even contains several small games and itros to get used to it and set it up the way you want.

for more specific questions PM me, allthough I might not be able to help you, but I'll try for sure.

[niv]

Hi!

So, I've tried the new 3d mouse support, and it's awesome. Especially in the VAB/SPH - something that far exceeded my expectations. It's really smooth (after tweaking sensitivity a bit, which is fine).

Ingame camera mode is just as well-implemented, and I was surprised at the range of motion away from the active vessel you can achieve: Wanted to start making a movie just seeing the smooth transitions! It working in the map scene is useful too.

However, I found two small bugs (and one feature request):

- Control mode: yaw & roll are in airplane mode. Awkward for rockets. Maybe add yet another hotkey for swapsies. You can swap axis in the driver settings, but that breaks camera mode of course. I haven't played around with this a lot yet (just too used to keyboard at this point) - will report back later.

- Control mode: RCS in EVA is broken: It seems to react like a ship RCS at full thrust. The exhaust plume is 3x as large as the kerbal itself - quite funny, really.

- Unimportant feature request: Phyiscal buttons cannot be mapped natively (by setting them to "application defined" in the driver). You can still map them to keyboard shortcuts, of course (by editing the .xml file!). While not a big deal for SpaceMouse users (which have two buttons), this gets cumbersome quickly for people with SpaceMouse Pro or similar - they have 11+ buttons.

Either way, it's totally worth it just for VAB support. A dream to work with! Thank you, devs, for taking the time to implement this.

n

[sacapuces]

I find the 3D mouse impractical for flight right now. I can't set up the axis in the game so for me every axis is either inverted or completely not the good one.

I know i could switch some things in the driver but the camera mode would be nonsense. Is there any way to change this for the game?

[trapezoid]

So, I've tried the new 3d mouse support, and it's awesome.

I played around a bit in the settings but I wasn't able to figure out how to map the 3Dmouse onto any controls: when I try to assign axis bindings and move the 3dmouse nothing registers. Could you explain a bit how you mapped the mouse axes to control axes?

Thanks!

[@td]

I find the 3D mouse impractical for flight right now. I can't set up the axis in the game so for me every axis is either inverted or completely not the good one.

I know i could switch some things in the driver but the camera mode would be nonsense. Is there any way to change this for the game?

I too am having this same issue, would be nice to have a rocket control setting. I haven't tried this yet, but I think I am going to make one of the buttons on the mouse toggle between settings of changing the axis mapping in the mouse software (not sure if this is possible yet).

Has anyone found the correct fix or is this a bug/should be filed as one?

[niv]

Alright.

@trapezoid: You don't configure it, it's hardcoded in the game. What you need to do instead is install the latest driver, and create a profile for KSP.exe that maps the 3dmouse axises to "3D mouse mode". KSP (or rather, the embedded 3dmouse support) will then pick up axis movements and handle them independently of any control settings configured in KSP (for example, in the VAB).

@@td: There's no way to "fix" the airplane mapping for control mode in KSP, since there's no setting for it that I am aware of. One would have to be added to make that configurable, because switching the mappings in the driver profile would break VAB support.

I suppose you could create two profiles for the driver and a small script (autohotkey, for example) that would switch them out on a certain key press (profiles are just .xml files and are read on the fly, so this would probably work). A setting in KSP would be better though as this is definitely needed to switch again when flying a spaceplane, not a rocket.

[callimero]

Just tried with my Space Navigator. However I can controll the camera I cant bind it with flying via the settings. Do I miss something. I used the latest drivers, could not find a beta driver. And my GUI in the driver looks much less function packed... No 3D Mouse maping...

Best regards,

Carsten

[100ideas]

Having the same problem callimero is having. Anyone know what's going on?

[estyles]

I just got a SpaceNavigator too and am having some trouble. I think I can answer the first question - press Scroll Lock while flying to have the 3d mouse control flight instead of just the camera. Took me a while to find that.

But I'm still having two problems:

a) Roll and Yaw are swapped from how I would expect them to work. Twisting the 3d mouse causes the ship to tilt, while tilting causes the ship to twist. I see above that people are recommending using the advanced settings to remap roll and yaw, but I do not have those options. I have a much simplified properties dialog (there is an advanced settings button, but it just allows you to turn axes on or off, or invert them. It doesn't let you remap axes). Anyone know how to get the more advanced dialog?

When I use the 3d mouse to move the camera in the VAB, I lose the ability to place parts. If I don't touch the 3d mouse, then I can use the regular mouse to place parts normally, but as soon as I touch the 3d mouse, clicking on a part in the VAB causes that part to show up somewhere in the building, and the part can't be moved - it's just stuck there. I have to exit the VAB and come back in order to build a ship.

[estyles]

a) Roll and Yaw are swapped from how I would expect them to work. Twisting the 3d mouse causes the ship to tilt, while tilting causes the ship to twist. I see above that people are recommending using the advanced settings to remap roll and yaw, but I do not have those options. I have a much simplified properties dialog (there is an advanced settings button, but it just allows you to turn axes on or off, or invert them. It doesn't let you remap axes). Anyone know how to get the more advanced dialog?

I don't know if anyone is paying attention to this topic, but I did figure out how to solve this problem...

When you choose "Properties" in the 3d Mouse Home, it chooses the last program you were in. So if you have KSP windowed or alt-tab out of it and click properties on that window, you'll get the profile for KSP. That part, I already knew. However, in the current version of the software, using the SpaceNavigator (not sure if the problem is the driver version or that I'm not using the SpaceMouse Pro), it doesn't give you the option to swap axes. But if you save your profile for KSP (personally, I need the sensitivity turned way down), then it will create a config file that you can then edit. And when you edit the config file, you can swap the axes.

This file should be located at: C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\3Dconnexion\3DxWare\Cfg\KSP.xml on Windows 7. This xml file consists of a bunch of Axis definitions. You just have to look for the one that says <ActionID>HIDMultiAxis_Ry</ActionID> under the <Input> tag, and change the corresponding <Output> tag to say <ActionID>HIDMultiAxis_Rz</ActionID>. Then find the one that says <ActionID>HIDMultiAxis_Rz</ActionID> under the <Input> tag, and change the corresponding <Output> tag to say <ActionID>HIDMultiAxis_Ry</ActionID>.

Not too difficult. And it even seems to update in real-time, if you edit the xml file while you're playing.

[thekernel]

@estyles, did you also solve the VAB problem? I have no problems rotate locking, but the VAB thing is driving me crazy.

[Red Iron Crown]

I found the beta drivers =e657f516-d99e-f54c-e24d-51c875c0b7e4"]here work better with a SpaceNavigator on Win7 than the newer official release.

The axes seem to mapped correctly for planes rather than rockets. I wish there was a way to switch them on the fly.

Edit to add: The VAB camera thing is a bit of a frustrating confirmed bug, hopefully it gets looked at in the next update.

Edited January 18, 2015 by Red Iron Crown

[cpt Barbacoco]

I'd like to see this fixed too. Its weird you can't have different axis setups for staging and docking mode, as there seems to be two different pages for it on the game control settings.

[wossname]

My brand new spacenavigator and KSP 0.90 has this parts placement issue also. I'm severely bummed out by this. Doesn't seem to be marked as fixed in the bug tracker linked above, it's not even targeted for fix

[wossname]

WORK-AROUND!!!!!

You can kind of half-avoid this parts placement bug issue temporarily without leaving the VAB or SPH...

How to reproduce the bug in KSP 1.0 (I've literally been playing it for 3 minutes )...

1. Enter the SPH but DO NOT TOUCH the 3D mouse yet!
   
2. start a new craft
   
3. place a command module
   
4. move the 3D mouse a little to change the camera angle (this seems to set up the bug)
   
5. Go to the engines list and place a FLEA engine -- the bug happens here. The engine gets stuck in the construction area and you can't click pick it up until you exit and re-enter the SPH or........
   

The fast workaround to get you going again quickly without leaving the SPH and re-entering...

1. Hit the "2" key on the main part of your keyboard
   
2. click the FLEA engine (it should now be attached to your mouse like as if it's in the "Place" mode).
   
3. Hit the "1" key on the main part of your keyboard. This gets you back in normal place mode again.
   
4. Place the part where you want it.
   
5. Carry on working as normal.
   
6. You'll have to do this every time you use the 3d mouse while in the VAB or SPH. I have not seen any problems outside of these contexts yet but I'll update later if I do.
   

This seems like a nice workaround in the short term if you are used to working with the "123" keys as I am (as of 0.90).

I hope this helps some of you.

If any devs are listening, I suspect that the bug is to do with event handling somewhere in the mouse clicking and volumetric coordinate-calculations for the current mouse cursor. It's as if the 3D mouse is de-synchronising the camera's understanding of the scene from the 2D mouse's reference frame. Perhaps the 3D mouse needs to tell the 2D mouse that despite the 2D mouse not moving, the scene has. I don't know, but that's what it "feels like".

I'd be glad to help devs debug this on my machine if they need assistance.

Edited April 27, 2015 by wossname

[devilwarriors]

Was so sure that would have been fixed in 1.0.. was so disappointed when I plugged my 3d mouse in yesterday and it happened again. I'm sure its super easy to fix too but nobody seem to care about 3d mouse. If only they knew how much great it is to play this game with one.

[devilwarriors]

Someone made a temporary fix -> http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/3838#change-20136

[Red Iron Crown]

Someone made a temporary fix -> http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/3838#change-20136

I tested this and it works perfectly, thank you so much for linking it.