Editor improvements

[spongie]

Hiya!

First up... What a cool game idea and good implementation of that idea. Me and my friends play together using a big 52" screen as the mission main monitor, it's extra taxing on weekdays when missions push it past 3 am. Also, I appreciate the efforts in the Linux port since I'm a Linux only guy. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR THIS GAME!

Not sure if this has been posted already, but here goes anyway.

The biggest problem in getting my space programs going is the vehicle editor, it's very cumbersome to work with. A few suggestions:

1. Abort detach with escape.

Sometimes when you accidentally left-click the wrong part it detaches and it is sometimes a real pain to stick it back in it's original spot.

When you have a node detached it would be helpful if you can press escape (or right click or whatever) to return it from where it was last detached.

2. Grid snap (or similar).

I use a mod for vertical snap now which helps a lot, but it would help if this was in all three dimensions. Not sure how this would be implemented, but

sometimes it's very hard to keep a vehicle symetrical when the symetry option doesn't help / work out for what you're doing. Snap to grid or something similar would be nice.

3. Undo.

Probably not easy to implement, but would be very much appreciated.

4. Show connections / part tree.

Some sort of skeleton lines with dots to show how the part tree is built would be nice. This ensures that you actually did connect something and that it's not just resting on top of another part.

It would also be helpful to see where you have connection possibilities and where you have actually connected properly.

5. Remove the "auto-symetry" feature. (consider this a bug?)

Sometimes when I want to connect ONE part to another part that has been placed using symetry, the symetry count is automatically reset to the value used on the existing part.

I'm not sure if this is a good description, but it disables the option of placing a single part using no symetry on parts that have been placed using symetry.

6. Show stage total weight and thrust in the stage list.

Pretty much what it says. Since the physics engine can calculate this, it shouldn't be any problem calculating this in the editor and putting it in there somewhere.

7. Part info on right click.

Just as in flight mode you can get some information on each part, maybe in the editor you could show things like weight, fuel info, thrust and if a part is included in an action group, etc.

The frequent facepalming and trying to attach a part the way I want for 15 minutes is stealing time from all the cool missions.

We're only on 0.21 (I think), I'm hoping we will have a kick a** editor by the time we reach 1.0.

Thank you for taking time to read this in your otherwise busy schedule. As a sidenote, I hope you guys can make more money out of the continued development so it doesn't halt due to economic reasons. I wouldn't shy away from buying the game again if it would give me an improved editor. Consider making add-ons similar to those of games like Neverwinter Nights or have open donations for specific tasks / subprojects.

/Spongie

[UbioZur]

1. Abort detach with escape.

Sometimes when you accidentally left-click the wrong part it detaches and it is sometimes a real pain to stick it back in it's original spot.

When you have a node detached it would be helpful if you can press escape (or right click or whatever) to return it from where it was last detached.

Delete the parts you have detached and use CTRL+Z

2. Grid snap (or similar).

I use a mod for vertical snap now which helps a lot, but it would help if this was in all three dimensions. Not sure how this would be implemented, but

sometimes it's very hard to keep a vehicle symmetrical when the symmetry option doesn't help / work out for what you're doing. Snap to grid or something similar would be nice.

pressing C toggle the snap or free attachment.

3. Undo.

Probably not easy to implement, but would be very much appreciated.

See 1.

4. Show connections / part tree.

Some sort of skeleton lines with dots to show how the part tree is built would be nice. This ensures that you actually did connect something and that it's not just resting on top of another part.

It would also be helpful to see where you have connection possibilities and where you have actually connected properly.

When you hover your mouse on a part, it will highlight all the children parts.

5. Remove the "auto-symetry" feature. (consider this a bug?)

Sometimes when I want to connect ONE part to another part that has been placed using symetry, the symetry count is automatically reset to the value used on the existing part.

I'm not sure if this is a good description, but it disables the option of placing a single part using no symetry on parts that have been placed using symetry.

Make sure you go back to symmetry 1x (or no symmetry) to not have those parts placed on symmetry.

6. Show stage total weight and thrust in the stage list.

Pretty much what it says. Since the physics engine can calculate this, it shouldn't be any problem calculating this in the editor and putting it in there somewhere.

In the Not to Suggest stickie because it's been suggested lot of time.

7. Part info on right click.

Just as in flight mode you can get some information on each part, maybe in the editor you could show things like weight, fuel info, thrust and if a part is included in an action group, etc.

You will start knowing the parts as you keep playing the game. Also all the parts look different and you can access those info on the part list. It's mainly a matter of knowing by playing more.

Note that the Editor is currently being modified (hopefully for .22). We know there will be subassemblies in it for now. No news on others features so far from the dev weekly update.

[Mr Shifty]

7. Part info on right click.

Just as in flight mode you can get some information on each part, maybe in the editor you could show things like weight, fuel info, thrust and if a part is included in an action group, etc.

Great list, BTW. The editor is definitely the area of the game that could stand to be most improved. I hardly ever bother building ships anymore because the editor is such a painful experience.

Regarding this list item, as a workaround, you can switch to Action Group mode, then when you click on the part, its name will appear in the Action Group panel.

[spongie]

1. CTRL+Z (Undo) already exists? Didn't know.

2. Even with the mod I use it doesn't work well enough. The circular placement (and indeed the vertical snap in the mod) is not good enough, it's still a pain to place parts.

3. See 1.

4. Showing the attached child nodes is not the same as seeing attachable points. Also, it's a pain (again) to place a part correctly on the green node connectors when you have a lot going on.

5. No, that doesn't help, sometimes it's just stuck.

6. Right. With it being supported in so many suggestions I can pressume that it will eventually be part of the vanilla editor.

7. The point of having the info there is so you don't have to memorize it all. It helps the user.

I understand that a lot of you guys spend HOURS building your stuff, I think this time could be cut down to 1/3 if the editor behaved properly.

My suggestions aren't based on ten minutes of trying it out, I've spent hours in Kerbal Space Program and it's not up to par compared to other editors of the same type. Consider looking at Blender 3D for a user optimized interface for editing 3D, every feature is made to enhance the experience and reduce work time, we could achieve the same effect in the KSP editor.

We're only on 0.21, subassemblies is another feature I'd like to see. I don't mind if it takes another year of tinkering and maybe some of the features won't be implemented at all, but any improvement that will reduce the time I spend wrestling with the editor UI is appreciated.

Thanks for your time!

[spongie]

"I hardly ever bother building ships anymore because the editor is such a painful experience."

This is true for me as well, I stick with old working things rather than buildling new things. Buildling should be a fun experience, but since I'm always worried that the editor interface will take too much effort to wrestle with I just don't bother.

KSP deserves to have an editor that is oriented towards user efficiency and makes the editor portion a fun part of the game instead of a tedious chore.