So do I get one Return Chevron...or Five?

[Tiron]

So my mapping probe is starting to get halfway close to the end of its Delta-V. After having Mapped Kerbin, the Mun, Minmus, Duna, and Ike, it's currently on its way to Dres with about 5413 m/s left. After all the orbital adjustments it'll need to make to map Dres, it'll probably have just about enough fuel left for one more Transfer, with a fair bit of fuel left over. I'm thinking of returning it to Kerbin afterwards rather than trying to map Eve (it probably wouldn't have enough fuel to do Gilly as well).

So, the question is...if I return it to Kerbin...would that award a return Chevron for just Dres, or for every world it mapped?

[Richy teh space man]

I thought the return chevrons were for Kerbals..

[Tiron]

The guidelines say "... a Return Chevron is added when a craft has successfully returned from a world to Kerbin." Which makes sense. It's not particularly easier to return a probe than it is to return a kerbal, it's just...there's not really any reason to bother right now (I'd be doing it basically just because I can and don't have any better ideas for what to do with the Delta-V.)

[Profound]

So my mapping probe is starting to get halfway close to the end of its Delta-V. After having Mapped Kerbin, the Mun, Minmus, Duna, and Ike, it's currently on its way to Dres with about 5413 m/s left. After all the orbital adjustments it'll need to make to map Dres, it'll probably have just about enough fuel left for one more Transfer, with a fair bit of fuel left over. I'm thinking of returning it to Kerbin afterwards rather than trying to map Eve (it probably wouldn't have enough fuel to do Gilly as well).

So, the question is...if I return it to Kerbin...would that award a return Chevron for just Dres, or for every world it mapped?

It doesn't say HOW you have to return to Kerbin. (i.e. directly or indirectly)

[GreenDragon]

If it comes back to kerbin and is recovered or landed it gets a return chevron, the idea here is that you dont get return chevrons for one way trips, namely trips that finish somewhere other than kerbin. If it visited a planet and eventualy comes back it gets the return chevron, also visiting several places and coming back is harder not easier so I dont see any reason why you shouldnt add the chevron. The only question is in whatever probe missions count. As long as you note on the badge that it was a probe mission that question is covered since everyone will be able to see you did it with a probe not a manned craft so as long as you show the correct type of ship on the ribbon its perfectly fine in my opinion and its perfectly legit since your only claiming credit for things you've actually done.

[EvilotionCR2]

Why would you want to return to Kerbin if you can map one more planet with a probe?

[Tiron]

If it comes back to kerbin and is recovered or landed it gets a return chevron, the idea here is that you dont get return chevrons for one way trips, namely trips that finish somewhere other than kerbin. If it visited a planet and eventualy comes back it gets the return chevron, also visiting several places and coming back is harder not easier so I dont see any reason why you shouldnt add the chevron. The only question is in whatever probe missions count. As long as you note on the badge that it was a probe mission that question is covered since everyone will be able to see you did it with a probe not a manned craft so as long as you show the correct type of ship on the ribbon its perfectly fine in my opinion and its perfectly legit since your only claiming credit for things you've actually done.

Well the Guidelines for the Return Chevron explicitly say just 'a craft' with no mention of manned or unmanned, and also explicitly mention that it does NOT have to match with the craft device. The example he gives is that if you return a capsule, and then later put down a base, you can change it to a base and keep the return chevron, which doesn't matter for me as yet since the Probe's the only thing I've sent to any of those places on this run through (When my manned mission to Duna got wiped by the mod changes in 0.20 I restarted.)

Why would you want to return to Kerbin if you can map one more planet with a probe?

Because, after having JUST gotten it settled into Dres mapping orbit, it has 4325 m/s remaining. It's definitely enough for one more interplanetary transfer, but the only place I'm absolutely certain I could map before running out would be Eve, or Maybe Laythe. I don't think I'd have enough Delta-V left after doing Eve to get to Gilly, and I'm reasonably certain I'd have nowhere near enough to do all five Joolian moons, and I prefer to do systems like that in one pass if possible.

I'm not at all certain it's enough to even successfully map Moho or Eeloo, which are the only single planet targets left. So I might bring it back just for the return chevron(s), basically.

I *may* remap Kerbin if I go back though, I didn't fix my hilo.dat until I got to the mun, so I've got black oceans...

Edited August 29, 2013 by Tiron

[Hannu]

I think that you can easily get Eve and Gilly, if you use good transfer orbit and aerobraking. Delta v from Dres to Eve's atmosphere should be about 1600 m/s. Then let's say 500 m/s to orbit fine tuning. It took something around 1000 m/s from low Eve orbit to Gilly orbit. Polar orbits may take some additional delta v, but you should still have about 1 km/s tolerance.

[Tiron]

I think that you can easily get Eve and Gilly, if you use good transfer orbit and aerobraking. Delta v from Dres to Eve's atmosphere should be about 1600 m/s. Then let's say 500 m/s to orbit fine tuning. It took something around 1000 m/s from low Eve orbit to Gilly orbit. Polar orbits may take some additional delta v, but you should still have about 1 km/s tolerance.

Therein lies the problem: I'm in a very high inclination orbit around Dres right now (85.2 degrees), and after primary mapping finishes I'm going to have to take it even higher to get the poles. I don't think I wanna try to transfer directly from an orbit with an inclination that high (I'm doubtful that it's even possible outside some extreme serendipity.) So I either have to jack the inclination way back down or pop out into a solar orbit (which would have a much lower inclination if I did it right.)

Either of which is going to eat into that margin, how much I don't yet know because I'm NOT taking this thing off timewarp until the primary mapping's done. It was hard enough getting the orbital parameters acceptable once!

Edit: Same problem going from Eve to Gilly, although maybe a bit more possible because you're more likely to get the orbit to line up with the proper ejection angle. Inclination changes are KILLER in terms of Delta-V, which is why I normally do the gross inclination setup for a mapping run right at the edge of the SOI (which is why I don't have equatorial orbital devices on any of the planets I've mapped.)

Edited August 29, 2013 by Tiron

[Evrion]

I vote: all of them. however:

1) The ribbon is not a regulated system

2) Sometimes it's not exactly clear what counts and what doesn't

3) There is no other reward than pride

So: do whatever makes you feel good. If lying outright makes you feel good, go for it. If only taking ribbons that you KNOW you've earned makes you feel good, do that.

Edit: Personally I don't like lying and think the ribbon acts as a good "game time spent" measure, so I keep my reasonably up to date.

[Tiron]

I vote: all of them. however:

1) The ribbon is not a regulated system

2) Sometimes it's not exactly clear what counts and what doesn't

3) There is no other reward than pride

So: do whatever makes you feel good. If lying outright makes you feel good, go for it. If only taking ribbons that you KNOW you've earned makes you feel good, do that.

Edit: Personally I don't like lying and think the ribbon acts as a good "game time spent" measure, so I keep my reasonably up to date.

1.) Yes, I wanted some other opinions on the subject is all.

2.) Oh I know. I've just had the thought that the way it's written I could probably technically take a Sun Return Chevron as well if I do bring it back(it's gone through Solar orbit twice already and would have to pull a third,) but I don't really feel too good about that one, because it's basically free.

I'd never lie because what's the point in that? As for 'keeping it up to date', well, I tend to treat the 'polar orbit' award as 'mapped the bloody thing' instead of just 'got in an orbit that could map the bloody thing'. Which is part of why I haven't thrown Dres up on mine yet even though I'm mapping it right this second.

The other part being that I prefer to combine predictable, sequential awards into one lump to save load on poor Moustachechauve's system. So when I *finish* mapping Dres, I'll slap it on there with an orbit+polar+probe.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Tiron

[DChurchill]

Yeah, I'd say all of them. You hit it an made it back. It doesn't say direct return.

Honestly, doing them in one run is a bigger deal than one at a time, anyway.

That being said, I generally use the return chevron only for kerbals, but then again, I've never brought a probe back to Kerbin.

Edited August 29, 2013 by DChurchill

[Unistrut]

Hello! I'm the doofus who wrote those sentences in the first place. No need to guess. I'd say that if you visited multiple planets and then returned you have "returned" from all of them. You started at Kerbin, went to that place and returned to Kerbin. You just took the scenic route. The very, very long scenic route.

You might also grab the spaceport version and make yourself a Grand Tour shield.

Edit - and the RC does count for probes - in the current version of the game the difference between kerbals and probes is solely one of weight and remembering to pop the solar panels before hitting time acceleration. Well, and a slight pang of guilt when you auger in the kerbal. If you can design a craft that can make it to another world and then make it back, even if it's just a probe, you've done the tricky part. Doing it with kerbals just means scaling up a bit. This may change once life support becomes a thing and keeping kerbals alive for extended periods of time becomes a more serious design consideration.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Unistrut

[Tiron]

Hello! I'm the doofus who wrote those sentences in the first place. No need to guess. I'd say that if you visited multiple planets and then returned you have "returned" from all of them. You started at Kerbin, went to that place and returned to Kerbin. You just took the scenic route. The very, very long scenic route.

You might also grab the spaceport version and make yourself a Grand Tour shield.

Edit - and the RC does count for probes - in the current version of the game the difference between kerbals and probes is solely one of weight and remembering to pop the solar panels before hitting time acceleration. Well, and a slight pang of guilt when you auger in the kerbal. If you can design a craft that can make it to another world and then make it back, even if it's just a probe, you've done the tricky part. Doing it with kerbals just means scaling up a bit. This may change once life support becomes a thing and keeping kerbals alive for extended periods of time becomes a more serious design consideration.

Wasn't expecting the Man Himself to weigh in! o.o!

And yeah, I was thinking about the Grand Tour shield too (I actually already grabbed the spaceport version in fact).

Edit"

... I generally use the return chevron only for kerbals, but then again, I've never brought a probe back to Kerbin.

There's not really any particular reason TO bring a Probe back right now. I'm not just not certain I have enough Delta-V to map Eve and Gilly both in one pass, and I'm quite sure there's no other system left unmapped that it has enough Delta-V to completely finish mapping either. I do have a *minor* need to remap Kerbin anyway, because my Oceans are mostly black (I didn't discover the 'delete hilo.dat' trick until I got to the Mun and it was coming out almost completely white.) So I may bring it back, have it Remap Kerbin so there's no need to have a later Probe do it, and then land it just because.

I'm not sure yet, I'm still waiting on the Dres mapping to finish.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Tiron

[Dogface]

You might also grab the spaceport version and make yourself a Grand Tour shield.

Mission Ribbons V 6.0

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/missionribbonsv60/

[SpaceSphereOfDeath]

Edit: Personally I don't like lying and think the ribbon acts as a good "game time spent" measure, so I keep my reasonably up to date.

Ummm, *looks at signature*

On topic, I would only give my self one, from the body that I transfered to kerbin from,

I.e kerbin->Jool->dres->eve->kerbin. I would give my self one for eve.