The Jool All-In-One Lander

[fenderzilla]

This challenge is simple: build a lander that is capable of landing on every one of Jool's moons in one mission and returning to orbit.

rules:

You CAN:

have a larger ship which sits in orbit to refuel your craft. this can also transport your lander too jool/between moons

use kethane to refuel your craft

use mods that do not add new rockets (propellors like firespitter are fine)

have different stages, possibly customized for each moon (ex: if your order is laythe, tylo, then the others, you could have jets that break off that break off when exiting Laythe, then massive rockets that break off exiting Tylo, leaving you with a small lander for vall, bop, and pol

use mods which add new rockets, as long as:

they do not produce more max thrust than a mainsail

they are not more efficient (ISP) than a nuclear engine

use jet engines or parachutes on laythe

You CANNOT:

Bring 5 identical landers and land each one individually - all 5 moons must be done by the same lander

Use modded propulsion systems not listed above

Use atmospheric miners of any kind (other than jet intakes)

If you can do all of them but one that's okay, still post it

Pics or it didn't happen

Edited September 1, 2013 by fenderzilla

[Captain Sierra]

Tylo is a b**ch to land on as it is. A Tylo lander would basically be OP for any other planet and you'd have to be careful not to shoot yourself out of Pol's SoI. I also think the mod thing i not super clear. Eg: KSPX adds a 2.5m NERVA engine and B9 adds a low-profile engine (which is a bit weaker than a poodle). These are well balanced and would not make the challenge any easier or harder. There are mods that add new types of engines (firespitter) so what defines new propulsion systems?

[SkyRender]

Actually, thanks to Kethane, you wouldn't really need that impressive a lander. It would only need to have the capacity to go slightly over half the dV required to reach orbit for Tylo, and you'd just have to do your trip in the right order so that you always land on a lighter moon right after you visit one of the two heavy ones. Tylo's "Running on fumes" is Pol's "land and return to orbit 15 consecutive times", after all.

This craft, for example, can easily land on every moon of Jool and return as long as it lands on a Kethane deposit on most of them. It has 3,500dV and 1.59 TWR for the two worst offenders in the system, more than enough for Tylo.

Edited September 1, 2013 by SkyRender

[fenderzilla]

Tylo is a b**ch to land on as it is. A Tylo lander would basically be OP for any other planet and you'd have to be careful not to shoot yourself out of Pol's SoI. I also think the mod thing i not super clear. Eg: KSPX adds a 2.5m NERVA engine and B9 adds a low-profile engine (which is a bit weaker than a poodle). These are well balanced and would not make the challenge any easier or harder. There are mods that add new types of engines (firespitter) so what defines new propulsion systems?

yeah... didn't think very hard about the new propulsion thing. I'll edit the original post.

[Captain Sierra]

I still think it's off. eg: there is a KW Rocketry engine that produces 200 more thrust than a mainsail but it burns fuel faster. Comparatively, it is about balanced with a mainsail (sorry for nitpicking here, but it helps to clarify stuff like this early)

Either way, since we can use kethane, I'll still give it a go.

[fenderzilla]

I still think it's off. eg: there is a KW Rocketry engine that produces 200 more thrust than a mainsail but it burns fuel faster. Comparatively, it is about balanced with a mainsail (sorry for nitpicking here, but it helps to clarify stuff like this early)

Either way, since we can use kethane, I'll still give it a go.

I just don't want you using modded engines that are better than the ones in stock. I just can't account for every mod out there so the rules stand.

[metaphor]

If you can refuel on the ground, Laythe would be harder than Tylo since you need about 3200 delta-v to take off with the atmospheric drag.

[SkyRender]

If you can refuel on the ground, Laythe would be harder than Tylo since you need about 3200 delta-v to take off with the atmospheric drag.

That gives me a bit of an idea. The rules don't say anything about having to lug all of the fuel along the entire time. You could totally design a modular lander that lightens its fuel load for the smaller moons, then loads up on extra tanks to take on Tylo and Laythe. If you made Laythe the last spot you visit (or at least visit it after you go to Tylo), you could have it could dispose of a few of its sub-tanks permanently on the way back to orbit.

[SSSPutnik]

This lander should be capable?

https://moc-per.micromine.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=2d16f6df2ab7752decedc61d25eda818

[Pds314]

SSTO supercarrier coming soon, hopefully complete with a docked compact spaceplane or several each capable of landing on Tylo and returning.

[SSSPutnik]

In one launch? Impressive.

[Pds314]

If you can refuel on the ground, Laythe would be harder than Tylo since you need about 3200 delta-v to take off with the atmospheric drag.

While that is true, one thing you are not considering is that jets and wings work on laythe basically like on Kerbin. You can easily jet or infiniglide or just use a smaller engine with a low TWR on Laythe. On Tylo, however, you need an lv-45t.(or even something bigger) just to get an average 3-man lander up.

[Ziv]

While that is true, one thing you are not considering is that jets and wings work on laythe basically like on Kerbin. You can easily jet or infiniglide or just use a smaller engine with a low TWR on Laythe. On Tylo, however, you need an lv-45t.(or even something bigger) just to get an average 3-man lander up.

But for the other moons your jet engines are just dead weight. This challenge is about one universal lander...

by the way I did the JOOL-5 challenge twice (I still have to upload the pictures from the second mission), one with different modular lander and science units, the second one with an ultralight lander with a commander seat which used an additional docked stage for Laythe (Jets) and Tylo (for deorbit/descent). Pictures coming soon, the link to that challenge is in my profile's bottom line:

Edited December 7, 2013 by Ziv

[Mr Tegu]

Would it be ok to have separate lifters that remain with the mothership and get attached to the lander module and then discarded once used (i.e. so you don't have to lift your Vall ascent stage from Laythe)?

Also are fuel barges allowed to be sent to Jool as separate launches or do you need to assemble a space train before doing the trip?