New technologies you think should be added to the game

[p1t1o]

Sorry, but nobody was talking about what is OP or not.

The real sabre engine gather oxigen meanwhile is in atmosphere to be used later when they change into rocket mode.

That is the real key of efficiency from sabre engine. It does not need to carry the oxigen for the rocket mode, only H2, and the fact that can use a normal jet engine to reach some altitud and match 5.

About the intakes stack, aerodynamics and meteorology models, the nerva (using oxidizer) and many other things that are not yet completed in KSP. We can said like the same developers say. They are not really in game yet.

And high tier technologies without a career mode, removes all the fun to use them.

I also use the fuel mod, the problem that for nerva engines with static dry mass of tanks, is not accurate.

No, the SABRE does not collect LO2 for later use and will in fact, carry its own oxidiser. It won't even liquify the air coming in, only cools in intensely. This is then fed into the combustion chamber for burning with H2. In fact, there is even excess LH2 leftover just from cooling the air that much, it is burned with uncooled air for a net zero drag/thrust in simple ramjets.

What you are talking about is not as efficient as it sounds: the drag of collecting air/O2 from the atmosphere is huge as it is not balanced by any thrust; it also takes roughly the same amount of coolant to liquify a certain amount of air - for the weight, you may as well just carry fuel; If you want to separate LO2 from LAIR its even worse because you have to carry up the machinery to do so.

SABREs advantage comes from the cooling apparatus being very lightweight, due in part to their proprietary cooling tech, and in part because the air is not liquified, the plumbing is not as complex/heavy.

Cooling the intake air is advantageous in many ways, it fundamentally improves the thermodynamic performance of the engine, and almost as importantly, certain components (eg: the compressor) of the engine do not have to withstand huge temperatures, so can be made of light alloys.

[RAJ JAR]

lol, yeah. The guy is basically a fraud, his "device" (its just a box that you are supposed to flood with microwaves) belongs on a shelf next to all the "perpetual motion" machines.

*EDIT*

SUNJAMMER will have an area of approx 1200sq metres. Unless I'm incredibly poorly educated, that is not the size of Texas.

@RAGE097

You seem to think that a texas-sized solar sail would be launched fully deployed? Sunjammer is a real project, and whilst it won't be the size of Texas (lol1) it will be made of an extremely thin (5 microns) and light (~30kg) and will be folded up very tightly into a space about the size of a dishwasher. Oh and its named after an Arthur C Clarke story.

http://www.space.com/21556-sunjammer-solar-sail-launch-2014.html The Sunjammer they are going to launch next year will not be the size of Texas but it says in the article if they want to do deep space travel then they would have to build a solor sail that about the size of Texas.

Back on topic. Read about this electric sail technology they are making, looks interesting. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23498-new-satellite-sail-is-propelled-by-solar-protons.html#.Ui49jsasg8c

[RAJ JAR]

aww sad... it seems that if your post is larger than 5 lines, nobody read it :S

They are?? I just see an engine with a crazy isp and a way to operate that it has nothing to do with the real sabre engine.

If someone add a sabre engine to the game, then at least they need to have into account how you start to harvester oxigen meanwhile you are in atmosphere.

Is like add hot air or helium ballons wihout any similitude or principles that rules the real ones. "Hooligan Labs"

I support the effort to try to incorporate these additions to the game, but do not confuse, there are not in the game yet.

Well I guess now you need to hear the bad things.

I have seen this before. Im sure he is good engineer but from what I have read and seen on youtube. VASIMR looks amazing but there is still a lot they have to do. The have not tested it with a nuclear reactor. VASIMR is the future.

Edited September 9, 2013 by RAJ JAR

[AngelLestat]

No, the SABRE does not collect LO2 for later use and will in fact, carry its own oxidiser. It won't even liquify the air coming in, only cools in intensely. This is then fed into the combustion chamber for burning with H2. In fact, there is even excess LH2 leftover just from cooling the air that much, it is burned with uncooled air for a net zero drag/thrust in simple ramjets.

What you are talking about is not as efficient as it sounds: the drag of collecting air/O2 from the atmosphere is huge as it is not balanced by any thrust; it also takes roughly the same amount of coolant to liquify a certain amount of air - for the weight, you may as well just carry fuel; If you want to separate LO2 from LAIR its even worse because you have to carry up the machinery to do so.

SABREs advantage comes from the cooling apparatus being very lightweight, due in part to their proprietary cooling tech, and in part because the air is not liquified, the plumbing is not as complex/heavy.

Cooling the intake air is advantageous in many ways, it fundamentally improves the thermodynamic performance of the engine, and almost as importantly, certain components (eg: the compressor) of the engine do not have to withstand huge temperatures, so can be made of light alloys.

Ok ok, my bad. It seems that I misunderstood many things.

I can swear that I saw a animation where it seems like the oxigen enters in the tanks. And I read many times that the best benefic was avoid to carry with all the oxigen. And the fact that they need to cool it so much, led me to think that was to liquify it (the only way to gather).

I never thoght that was to avoid high temperatures that would melt light materials, so if they use materials resistant to these temperatures the engine would be very heavy.

Well in that case, I take it back. B9 did a good job. sorry.

In this page talks about this.

http://www.gravityloss.com/2010/10/why-precool-but-not-liquify-skylon-and-sabre/

And they point that the system is very similar to a LACE system.

But with the new materials that we are testing right now in laboratories, it would be possible to make in 6 or 7 years an engine with high temperature resistence and very light.

Back on topic. Read about this electric sail technology they are making, looks interesting. http://www.newscientist.com/article/...l#.Ui49jsasg8c

Yeah, that concept is similar to a magnetic sail. But it works best for brake than for propulsion.

The Sunjammer they are going to launch next year will not be the size of Texas but it says in the article if they want to do deep space travel then they would have to build a solor sail that about the size of Texas

That is in the case that they use the same material than sunjammer for a interstellar sail.

But this materials are just for testing purposes. to test maneuvers, forces acting on the sail, etc.

They use Kapton for the sail. It has a weight of 31 g/m2. This is A LOT for sails.

Also they temperature resistence is only 600K.

Right now we can use dielectric materials instead, who has 99,9999% of reflector coefficient and is a lot lighter too (aprox 3g/m2 it depends on the dielectric that you use), its temperature resistence is 1500K.

With this material in a close fly by near sun to reach max speed it would reach more than 10000 km/s, meanwhile the kapton sail will reach a maximun of 10km/s (guessing).

We can also use carbon nanotubes, in this case the sail will weight less than 0,1g/m2, the temperature resistence it would be close to 4000K. This sail will reach from 5 to 10% light speed in a close fly by near the sun. (of course with a very light payload)

So with this material a beamed interstellar ship does not need to be big, it can be 50mx50m or 1000mx1000m, becouse you can focus all the power that you want without melting, in case of the kapton you need a lot more area to distribute the power and with 31g/m2 this mean a lot of total mass, so more power needed and more area.

So try to compare the potential of solar sails with the current test projects is like try to make the Skylon of wood and say that it would never be usefull.

I have seen this before. Im sure he is good engineer but from what I have read and seen on youtube. VASIMR looks amazing but there is still a lot they have to do. The have not tested it with a nuclear reactor. VASIMR is the future.

He does some good critism, but well, we need to take into account that his criticism is based in the current studies and materials.

Edited September 10, 2013 by AngelLestat

[SpeedyB]

Perhaps they could add in Q-Thruster technology as a very high tear thruster (Assuming the theoretical technology actually works)

Info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_vacuum_plasma_thruster

[RAJ JAR]

Perhaps they could add in Q-Thruster technology as a very high tear thruster (Assuming the theoretical technology actually works)

Info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_vacuum_plasma_thruster

Thank you for posting this, I knew I was forgetting something. This would be awesome as well.

[RAJ JAR]

Are all of the technologies in KSP real or theoretical?

[Kegereneku]

I think a variable-thrust VASIMR-like engine for KSP could work, but it may need a new physical-warp made specifically for continuous-burn thruster which is a BIG deal.

It would be different from KSP's Ionic-engine in that its ISP would be variable. Another problem is to make maneuver node capable to deal with even a short "spiral trajectory".

Skylon's SABRE engine could also work in KSP, I feel like it could end-up overpowered, but then it may be a way to reduce turbojet abuse. I all depend of how the Devs redo the aerodynamic model.

Important Edit : There also a lot to say about how KSP deal with ISP right now,follow this link. In short : Rocket engine THRUST is supposed to change with atmospheric pressure, not the ISP.

Are all of the technologies in KSP real or theoretical?

The answer is both, liquid engine are real, but Aerospkie engine and nuclear engine never went past prototype stage. There's a VASIMR about to be tested on ISS.

But I have to point out that there's a lot of simplification that have been made compared to real rocket engine. real rocket-engine can't throttle much (10%) and some of them can't even be reignited after cutoff.

Because of the gameplay aimed by KSP, they'll necessarily have to use a lot of theoretical engine (up to nuclear fusion thruster), and maybe some more exotic system.

In the case of Vasimr, looks promising. But its principles and practical studies are a lot less tested than Solar Sails.

Robert Zubrin said that it will not be much better than ION drives, and this take my attention becouse he is a really good scientific.

I shouldn't be surprised to see you there, but it feel like I'm stalking you because of your sails suggestion.

In my opinion Robert Zubrin's criticized the VASIMR technology mostly because it doesn't cope with his MARSNOWREGARDLESSOFTHECOST plan. He sound like an loud escapist for many. Yes VASIMR isn't a key for Mars, but its something better to spend real-money on, and nothing like a Ionic engine since it allow higher thrust.

For KSP a Nuclear or Solar-VASIMR could in concept work with an enhanced physical-warp. But solar-sail is too "slow" for anything bigger than a small probe and ask for a for a whole new type of gameplay by itself. The Gameplay-forum would be full of question about getting how to get out of orbit with a solar-sail.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Kegereneku

[RAJ JAR]

I think a variable-thrust VASIMR-like engine for KSP could work, but it may need a new physical-warp made specifically for continuous-burn thruster which is a BIG deal.

It would be different from KSP's Ionic-engine in that its ISP would be variable. Another problem is to make maneuver node capable to deal with even a short "spiral trajectory".

Skylon's SABRE engine could also work in KSP, I feel like it could end-up overpowered, but then it may be a way to reduce turbojet abuse. I all depend of how the Devs redo the aerodynamic model.

Important Edit : There also a lot to say about how KSP deal with ISP right now,follow this link. In short : Rocket engine THRUST is supposed to change with atmospheric pressure, not the ISP.

The answer is both, liquid engine are real, but Aerospkie engine and nuclear engine never went past prototype stage. There's a VASIMR about to be tested on ISS.

But I have to point out that there's a lot of simplification that have been made compared to real rocket engine. real rocket-engine can't throttle much (10%) and some of them can't even be reignited after cutoff.

Because of the gameplay aimed by KSP, they'll necessarily have to use a lot of theoretical engine (up to nuclear fusion thruster), and maybe some more exotic system.

I shouldn't be surprised to see you there, but it feel like I'm stalking you because of your sails suggestion.

In my opinion Robert Zubrin's criticized the VASIMR technology mostly because it doesn't cope with his MARSNOWREGARDLESSOFTHECOST plan. He sound like an loud escapist for many. Yes VASIMR isn't a key for Mars, but its something better to spend real-money on, and nothing like a Ionic engine since it allow higher thrust.

For KSP a Nuclear or Solar-VASIMR could in concept work with an enhanced physical-warp. But solar-sail is too "slow" for anything bigger than a small probe and ask for a for a whole new type of gameplay by itself. The Gameplay-forum would be full of question about getting how to get out of orbit with a solar-sail.

From what I have read and seen on documentaries, they say VASIMR could bring quick transport to mars with a nuclear reactor powering the engine. Out of all the electric space propulsions made of being made, which is the best? In terms of speed and fuel efficiency.

Edited September 11, 2013 by RAJ JAR

[RAJ JAR]

What about this propulsion and reactor added to the game? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsed_inductive_thruster PIT thruster. SAFE 400 reactor, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFE-400. Or nuclear fusion reactors being made.

[AngelLestat]

Kegereneku

but it may need a new physical-warp made specifically for continuous-burn thruster which is a BIG deal.

Why is a big deal? if they could make 2 different time warp, one that calculates structure, thrust and gravity, and the other calculate only gravity. Why they cant make a time warp that calculates gravity and thrust?

And we all know that the structure physics is the one that eats all the processing time.

It would be different from KSP's Ionic-engine in that its ISP would be variable. Another problem is to make maneuver node capable to deal with even a short spiral trajectory.

I dont follow you. what is the problem with isp variable? if you choose low thrust your isp is high, if you choose high thrust your isp is low. Spiral trajectory?

In my opinion Robert Zubrin's criticized the VASIMR technology mostly because it doesn't cope with his MARSNOWREGARDLESSOFTHECOST plan. He sound like an loud escapist for many. Yes VASIMR isn't a key for Mars, but its something better to spend real-money on, and nothing like a Ionic engine since it allow higher thrust.

But he is right on that, the goverment is using VASIMR like an excuse to not go mars. (but they dont have problem in waste money in a war against syria), you can figure out, all the important missions are kicked to after 2020, so that the next administration will have to take care of that.

And if you know his story you will know that he is in its right to be angry.

To the ones who does not saw it, here a nice documentary about this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDWvsdEYSqg

Zubrin did very good points against VASIMR, one is that they need a power source of 200Mw with a mass ratio of 1000w per kg, but we can make only 30w per kg. Superconductive magnets at high temperature, In contrast, after 30 years of research, the VASIMR has only obtained about 50 percent efficiency.

If someone want read the full critic:

http://www.spacenews.com/article/vasimr-hoax

I am not saying that VASIMR is not possible, I think that is possible and will be a good addition to our possibilities. But it will take 15 years at least to develope.

But looks good for the game, it will be nice a engine with variable electrical thrust. Of course in a higher tier.

For KSP a Nuclear or Solar-VASIMR could in concept work with an enhanced physical-warp. But solar-sail is too "slow" for anything bigger than a small probe and ask for a for a whole new type of gameplay by itself. The Gameplay-forum would be full of question about getting how to get out of orbit with a solar-sail.

You dont need to carry fuel, engines, etc. You have INFINITE ISP with Sails.

With a timewarp mode that ignores all structure physics meanwhile the acceleration is low, then what is the problem?

You can use a beam to push your sail (it does not need to be big) if your payload is big, or you can pass near the sun, and you will have all the speed that you need to carry big payloads to Jool.

Read my previous post about to day solar sails. I guess you are confusing about how much a Solar Sail can offer with good materials.

Look this for example:

This is a carbon nanotube sheet, it weights less than 0,01g/m2 and resist 4000K and is very strong.

But it needs to be reflective, is a manufacture process that for now they can only do at very small scales.

But we already had dielectric materials, that is almost as good than carbon nanotubes.

Raj Jar

What about this propulsion and reactor added to the game? PIT thruster. SAFE 400 reactor. Or nuclear fusion reactors being made.

There are all electrical propulsion systems, one way or another you will always had: low thrust --> high isp, high thrust --> low isp.

So in game terms, it will be nice start with Ion engines (with real values) and then in high tier use something like Vasimr.

Edited September 12, 2013 by AngelLestat

[AngelLestat]

Sorry I had problems posting, it does not make spaces between lines. "i fix it"

Edited September 12, 2013 by AngelLestat

[BostLabs]

http://www.space.com/21556-sunjammer-solar-sail-launch-2014.html The Sunjammer they are going to launch next year will not be the size of Texas but it says in the article if they want to do deep space travel then they would have to build a solor sail that about the size of Texas.

Back on topic. Read about this electric sail technology they are making, looks interesting. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23498-new-satellite-sail-is-propelled-by-solar-protons.html#.Ui49jsasg8c

Yup!

13,000-square-foot (1,208 square meters) sail will allow it to cruise through the heavens like a boat through the ocean  is scheduled to lift off atop a SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket from Florida's Cape Canaveral late next year.

Been to Tx several times. Either that thing isn't the size of Tx or I drive really, really slow. Still it is a cool idea and one I'd like to see deployed.

[Kegereneku]

From what I have read and seen on documentaries, they say VASIMR could bring quick transport to mars with a nuclear reactor powering the engine. Out of all the electric space propulsions made of being made, which is the best? In terms of speed and fuel efficiency.

The problem is that we can't just "take the best" electric engine, Efficiency is a trade off with Acceleration and to reach higher ISP you'll need to give up thrust.

VASIMR is interesting in that it theoretically allow to increase acceleration while staying as efficient than a nuclear engine, allowing shorter mission. This is important because Ionic-thruster can't be scaled up and gain higher acceleration. It's only good for automated probes.... just like solar-sail.

And Beam-sail while better, are not practical unless you have a technology level that would also allow 99% efficient lightweight fusion-thruster with hot-supraconductor magnet.

But KSP-speaking, VASIMR can and have been added by mods without modifying the gameplay. It's not possible with solar-sail, and even less with beam-sail.

Last, I have to say that I consider a real manned mission to Mars unproductive and out of our reach. VASIMR or not. NASA's Reference Design Mission v5 (Picture use nuclear engine and is the most efficient method. (and Robert Zubric is also criticizing it, listening to him we should just shoot canned-man to Mars until it make a colony)

What about this propulsion and reactor added to the game? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulsed_inductive_thruster PIT thruster. SAFE 400 reactor, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFE-400. Or nuclear fusion reactors being made.

Real-world : I don't now for the former, but the big problem with nuclear-engine is that if it fail in orbit, it's a radioactive hazard inside the Van Allen belt. There's also a conflict with the treaty which ban nuclear weapon in space.

KSP-speaking we already have a nuclear reactor but the resources used will change. Unlike chemical engine which use combustive+oxidizer to create thrust, electric and nuclear-engine have "Energy" to propel "Reactive Mass".

Why is a big deal? if they could make 2 different time warp, one that calculates structure, thrust and gravity, and the other calculate only gravity. Why they cant make a time warp that calculates gravity and thrust?

And we all know that the structure physics is the one that eats all the processing time.

No. It certainly look easier to program than any solar-sail gameplay, but it ask for more than "simplifying physical calculation" you have to "replace how physic calculation are done".

I'm no efficient in C# but i guess you would need to have KSP consider the ship as one UNITY-"rigid body" with a simplified sum of all mass, thrust and fuel. This is similar to the wobble-problem and Dock-solidity the devs have. And problem like Higher-timewarp can't be fixed AT ALL because a 32bits engine can't deal with HUUUGE number while staying precise with small number.

So YES we know that it can be done video-game speaking, but only the developers can tell us if it's compatible with KSP without a major recoding.

I dont follow you. what is the problem with isp variable? if you choose low thrust your isp is high, if you choose high thrust your isp is low. Spiral trajectory?

Never said it was a problem, just stating how it is different. By "spiral trajectory" I meant low-thrust constant-burn around Kerbin until you reach escape velocity. True KSP could just "overpower" the engine but it may lead to balance problem.

But he is right on that, the goverment is using VASIMR like an excuse to not go mars. (but they dont have problem in waste money in a war against syria), you can figure out, all the important missions are kicked to after 2020, so that the next administration will have to take care of that.

And if you know his story you will know that he is in its right to be angry.

To the ones who does not saw it, here a nice documentary about this:

He can be angry if he want, but it doesn't mean he's right. VASIMR never mattered, the best Mars Reference Mission used EXISTING NUCLEAR ENGINE anyway. He is just being loud and calling to conspiracy to gain attention.

The Apollo program brought up important scientific return because (1) it was possible (2) automated-system were not. Right now a bloody war against a dictatorship look more useful than financing a doomed mission to Mars for a bunch of fan. If you want to develop the technology to LIVE in Space ? Just give more fund to the ISS it will be much more cost-efficient.

His documentary is Fiction, biased fiction where he preach the discovery of a new America by (him) pioneers. It's only one of the reasons people call him an escapist. The whole colonization project is even politically dangerous.

You dont need to carry fuel, engines, etc. You have INFINITE ISP with Sails.

With a timewarp mode that ignores all structure physics meanwhile the acceleration is low, then what is the problem?

You can use a beam to push your sail (it does not need to be big) if your payload is big, or you can pass near the sun, and you will have all the speed that you need to carry big payloads to Jool.

Put aside that everything you said is based on ridiculous expectation and only number you like, I've still never seen you trying to translate the idea into a workable gameplay. You probably didn't read this reply to you (if you want to answers, do it with PM, let's not discuss interstellar travel here).

You have that pretty irritating habit of dodging Gameplay concern.

- The mechanic of riding beam or the sun ask for extreme design simplification in KSP.

- Devs said that KSP don't calculate solar radiation in a continuous way.

- You need constant pseudo-physic calculation on all sails regardless of which ship you are focusing on

- maneuvering or "throttling" a sail must be done in timewarp for significant feed-back.

- you can't maneuver a sail using KSP's rigid body gameplay, not even the square Sunjammer sort.

And beamed-sail is worst

- Unless you have a laser-ring around kerbol, the direction of thrust will change with orbit.

- You'd need game mechanic allowing the use of several lasers simultaneously.

- The energy requirement will follow the square-cube law, you'll need more than a dozen laser satellite between 1 tons and 10 tons payload.

All this to say, "Not worth it".

I'm not even sure it was worth it to answer you.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Kegereneku

[Winter Man]

(in reference to solar sails)

How would you know if they work or not?

Sorry to quote back to the first page, but solar sails have already been flown reliably in interplanetary space - just not by NASA. JAXA's IKAROS spacecraft did a flyby of Venus using a little one.

[Requiem762]

SABRE engines please

[RAJ JAR]

Oh yeah forgot to mention earlier, scramjets! I soo want to have nuclear fusion reactor or cold fusion reactor with Vasimr behind it plus the warp drive that will be a awesome ships to pilot!

[EatVacuum]

Also what do you think of the Skylon?

As mentioned B9 does do the Sabre engine which will hopefully one day power the Skylon, although it is a big pack to download if you only want the Sabre (70MB, 176 parts, a handful of .dlls). You can read my rather lengthy thoughts about that on a Sabre thread here - http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/23728-REQUEST-Skylon-Saber-Engine-Reaction-Engines-Ltd?p=647091#post647091. But B9 has a lot of nice stuff so by all means get it if you have a use for all the other parts.

There is also a rather nice Skylon model already produced by a guy named Lando, available on the Space port here - http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/skylon-pack/ although you should note the developer's comments about the engine still needing some work. The engine's also a bit too effective as a rocket engine, it has the same Isp as the LV-N at 1/3 the weight and with 3 times the thrust, and that Isp is almost double what the real Sabre (and any other chemical rocket) can produce. But if that doesn't bother you, his model looks pretty nice.

[BostLabs]

Have you guys seen this thread? http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/43839-0-21-KSP-Interstellar-%28Warp-Drive-Solar-Thermal-Power-Research%29-Version-0-5-%28Beta%29

[AngelLestat]

KegerenekuAnd Beam-sail while better, are not practical unless you have a technology level that would also allow 99% efficient lightweight fusion-thruster with hot-supraconductor magnet.

What? Beam sail with fusion thruster?? supraconductor magnet? Can you clarify this?

I meant low-thrust constant-burn around Kerbin until you reach escape velocity. True KSP could just "overpower" the engine but it may lead to balance problem.

You dint see the last scott manley video?

Why it need to overpower the engine? That is how it should be!

He is just being loud and calling to conspiracy to gain attention.

He is not a random folk claiming that the LHC will destroy the world with none evidence. He is Zubrin.. And he show very strong evidence that nobody come out to contradict.

If someone said something that is not true, I come out to point it with evidence.. "you know me", and if someone is challeging my own ideas.. with more reason I will defend it. So why Diaz is not doing this?

And I am not saying that is not possible, it will take some time, maybe 10 or 15 years more to develope vasimr. But not qualify for a near mars mission like Zubrin say.

I've still never seen you trying to translate the idea into a workable gameplay. You probably didn't read this reply to you (if you want to answers, do it with PM, let's not discuss interstellar travel here).

Why I need to reply that again? In that topic I answer and answer each critic that you did and you choose ignore all. I never read from you "yes you were right in this"

And you do assertions all the time even when is the first time that you think about something. Example: "is not possible" "this will never happen" "warp drive is true", etc. No ever the most genius make those kind of assertions.

But you are right in one thing, I never explain exactly how can be added to the game. With details and improving the gameplay.

I will try to do it this weak if I find time. And you will find also the answers for that last topic that you say that I never reply.

One more thing: all the questions that you make.. I think that you already know the solutions for the most of them. But I guess the only thing that you want is try to convince others that is a bad idea, just becouse you dont like it.

BostLabs

Have you guys seen this thread? http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/...0-5-%28Beta%29

I like the way that he did the fussion drive.. but only that.

[RAJ JAR]

the link is not working.

[Kegereneku]

What? Beam sail with fusion thruster?? supraconductor magnet? Can you clarify this?

I'm talking of technology transfer during development, or the reason Von Braun had no more reason to build a space fleet of manned launcher and station because informatics allowed unmanned satellites. Same apply to any material-science necessary for either the sail or the lasers sat, you can't defend a femto-thick sail resisting to 4000K for 10years and pretend a fusion-boosted-VASIMR-thruster won't gain equivalent 99.99% efficient technology (actually you can, but you'll sound stupid).

You dint see the last scott manley video?

Why it need to overpower the engine? That is how it should be!

No I didn't subscribe to God Manley video, suppose you are referring to several Periapsis burn, yes its more efficient if you have the time and don't require constant solar power.

I mean overpower the engine so that you can power a VASIMR with a modest solar array and have fun. It's not obvious because VASIMR can give very little thrust.

He is not a random folk claiming that the LHC will destroy the world with none evidence. He is Zubrin.. And he show very strong evidence that nobody come out to contradict.

If someone said something that is not true, I come out to point it with evidence.. "you know me", and if someone is challeging my own ideas.. with more reason I will defend it. So why Diaz is not doing this?

And I am not saying that is not possible, it will take some time, maybe 10 or 15 years more to develope vasimr. But not qualify for a near mars mission like Zubrin say.

Yes, yes, even a broken clock is right twice a day. VASIMR isn't for now. But what's the point of trying to impede development because it don't suit your own project ? We need space infrastructure and space-dock before we can colonize Mars, and Vasimr is excellent for orbit keeping and more. I'm just saying I wouldn't trust Zubrin just because he got a diploma and media support.

Why I need to reply that again? In that topic I answer and answer each critic that you did and you choose ignore all. I never read from you "yes you were right in this"

And you do assertions all the time even when is the first time that you think about something. Example: "is not possible" "this will never happen" "warp drive is true", etc. No ever the most genius make those kind of assertions.

Because I'm making point you keep avoiding to address ? You shouldn't be discussing the realism of KSP when everybody else is talking about gameplay. And I never said Warp drive existed, I said it may be necessary for the Ksp GAME.

But you are right in one thing, I never explain exactly how can be added to the game. With details and improving the gameplay.

I will try to do it this weak if I find time. And you will find also the answers for that last topic that you say that I never reply.

I just wondered if you had read the answer, not really surprised if you didn't wanted to answer.

One more thing: all the questions that you make.. I think that you already know the solutions for the most of them. But I guess the only thing that you want is try to convince others that is a bad idea, just becouse you dont like it.

Actually I love the idea and I told you so, I'm all about infrastructure and building a Pusher/braker solars arrays would be my things.

But the "solutions I know" you speak of, don't exist. I don't call "solution" a total recoding, unbalancing the gameplay, or forcing ideas into a game they don't fit in (the whole engine is tuned for ballistic transfer, not brachistochrone navigation).

Last, I only pick on you with insistence because you are being loudly oblivious to what your idea entail and uphill debate is sort of my thing. I once lost hours discussing with a 17y old Christian fundamentalist about nuclear-thruster vs solar-vasimr and Mars being a new America (first time I was accused of being an atheist).

In any case, if you feel I bother you, I'll stop here and wait your eventual "Solar/Beamed Sail Gameplay" thread.

[RAJ JAR]

They should definitely add real world new propulsions with real world physics and chemistry such as vasimr plus I think they should add previous flown spacecraft and ones that are being built such as Dragon Capsule, Orion etc.

Also add newly made advanced solor arrays such as http://www.atk.com/products-services/ultraflex-solar-array-systems/ and batteries. What about space elevators and Hyperspace travel even though space elevators can be made and hyperspace travel is only a theory right?

Edited September 13, 2013 by RAJ JAR

[Kegereneku]

Be careful, FTL and Space elevator should be considered out of topic here as both are basically impossible, while VASIMR exist, fission/fusion-thruster, SABRE are in the realm of feasibility.

There's another big problem with Space Elevator in KSP : It would need to be a "scenery" sort of object as it's too big for the physic engine.

The Dragon capsule is totally ok, but I don't know if the Devs are ok with self-propelled capsule (It would reduce part count though)

I would also like some new solar pannel if there's a VASIMR equivalent, a truly gigantic square solar-array which track the sun.

This is basically what I have in mind :

My wish list for christmas :

* <1m high thrust engine (for early game and micro-satellite)

* <1m long rocket-fuel tank

* shock absorber / vibration dampener

* omnidirectional wheels

* stackable drogue-chute / parachute

* a VASIMR equivalent

* an even bigger solar array

* SABRE equivalent engine

* Electric air-propeller

* Airship

* "RINGS", http://www.gizmag.com/rings-satellite-iss/28712/

[shufflermuffler]

Thiel - How would you know if they work or not, they have been tested yes but next year from what I have read apparently NASA is going to launch "SUNJAMMER" a solar sail about the same width as Texas.

Same width as texas? it will be 38 meters by 38 meters. Where the hell did you hear that?