Infrastructure for Mapping

[derbal]

I'd like to see a common mapping infrastructure that add-ons can hook into, such as ISA MapSat, Kethane, MechJeb, etc.

It would be a lot cleaner to have one window or screen to show flat maps of the various planets' surfaces that can have additional layers for the different add-on map types, and can send picked coordinates to add-ons. The maps could even start out blank until the planets are mapped by a spacecraft. It could show the positions of all landed craft and ground tracks for things in orbit, and have user-placed markers and labels.

ISA MapSat partially does some of this, kind of. What I have in mind is something a lot more robust.

[Majiir]

I understand the desire for a common 2D map view. However, as the developer of Kethane, I'd prefer this not be done by the stock game. Remember, the stock game already has a common map interface (hint: it's the one Kethane, RemoteTech and MechJeb all use).

This is something addon developers can do as needed. Since ISA is currently unmaintained, I'd argue it's not currently needed. If someone wants to create a 2D map view and integrate it with other mods, they should speak with the developers of those mods to work out the details.

[EDIT] To elaborate on why I'd prefer the stock devs not touch this: Adding a stock system would "lock in" mods to using that system for fear of otherwise being incompatible. Given that addon devs can't even agree on a common system (yet) and the market for such a system is quite small, I think it's much better to let it evolve naturally. If we ever reach the point where too many implementations exist, that's when the stock devs can build something into the game. Until then, it would be a waste of their time to implement something without even knowing what problem it's supposed to solve.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Majiir

[derbal]

So you're saying the underlying structure already exists. That's good. But I don't like how the current version of Kethane wraps the map around the planet model without any option to display the information in another way. It obscures the terrain, and floats above it so it isn't always clear exactly what it's referring to, depending on how irregular the surface is. Displaying it on a 2D map (the way they used to do it during the space program in the 1960s!) would be a lot clearer.

I'm fine with someone doing a map display as a mod. I'm using something like 30 mods, so what's one more? I also don't see a problem with "locking in" a common method. Why does everyone need to reinvent the wheel every time they want to do something map related? We just end up looking at a bicycle wheel, a wagon wheel, a steering wheel, and a cheese wheel. If someone offered a common wheel framework, it would eliminate a huge chunk of the work, and maybe we'd see that small market for mapping features expand a little bit. And it would be a lot cleaner and more consistent.

[Majiir]

So you're saying the underlying structure already exists. That's good.

Not really, just that the map view exists and mods can interact with it. There's no special "put things around planets" API, but obviously mods can do it manually.

But I don't like how the current version of Kethane wraps the map around the planet model without any option to display the information in another way. It obscures the terrain, and floats above it so it isn't always clear exactly what it's referring to, depending on how irregular the surface is. Displaying it on a 2D map (the way they used to do it during the space program in the 1960s!) would be a lot clearer.

The Kethane map will conform to irregular surfaces in the next version (the code is done, it's just waiting for release). The old 2D map was inferior in almost every way; it was ridiculously difficult to tell what the map was even representing, let alone target a landing on a deposit. There's a data export feature if you really want to view it some other way. (Also, what 1960s Kethane map are you speaking of?)

I also don't see a problem with "locking in" a common method. Why does everyone need to reinvent the wheel every time they want to do something map related? We just end up looking at a bicycle wheel, a wagon wheel, a steering wheel, and a cheese wheel. If someone offered a common wheel framework, it would eliminate a huge chunk of the work, and maybe we'd see that small market for mapping features expand a little bit. And it would be a lot cleaner and more consistent.

We don't have different wheel types; as far as I know, we have exactly one, and that's ISA Mapsat (which is unmaintained anyway). Kethane abandoned the 2D map view because it was unintuitive and the texture format was highly problematic. Even if another mod starts using 2D maps, that's just one because ISA isn't being actively developed anyway, so there's no way for it to integrate with the new mod. Like I said, if we start getting too many systems, we can work on merging them. For now, we have two distinct methods (2D and 3D). In the 2D case there's only one contender, and in the 3D case the use cases are so wildly different that there's no unified API to build anyway.

[Captain Sierra]

o.0 Conforming Kethane grid? Suddenly I am glad I am starting to learn C# coding. Majiir, if I were to start working on 3D vew ISA replacement, would you be willing to lend me the source code for the geodesic grid? I'll certainly ask when the proper time (when I learn enough to make this happen) comes around.

[leax256]

I'm glad that someone who knows what they are talking about ansered this.

also, kethane, great mod. ran out kethane on the mün once, edited the file so all deosits have 100,000,000 kethane.

[Captain Sierra]

You sucked the Mun dry . . . What level of operations were you running?

[leax256]

You sucked the Mun dry . . . What level of operations were you running?

a train of about 10 biggest tanks from kw rocketry pack and a lander that could almost fill a tank in one trip