Trying my hand at aircraft. Advice?

[WhiteWeasel]

Here are three I designed, one stock, two modded. All are very high altitude atmospheric planes. I'd really like some design improvement to make them fly better. The only one that really gives me any trouble is the flying wing, it has a tendency to pitch up without trim and once you lose control, it's really hard to gain it back.

MLAS 1:

Max altitude before flame out at full throttle: ~20 km

Top speed: 1000 m/s

MLAS 2:

MABFOaFT: ~25 km

Top speed: 1500 m/s

"Flying Wing"

MABFOaFT: ~30

Top speed: Not tested yet

[White Owl]

I really love the looks of that flying wing! That's a design I haven't ever had success with.

Are you using FAR? How's the wing handle?

Edit: Also, since you asked for advice... most aircraft are easier to fly with the center of mass forward of the center of lift. That way it'll naturally have a slight nose-down tendency, which is generally more stable.

Edited September 30, 2013 by White Owl

[WhiteWeasel]

I really love the looks of that flying wing! That's a design I haven't ever had success with.

Are you using FAR? How's the wing handle?

Edit: Also, since you asked for advice... most aircraft are easier to fly with the center of mass forward of the center of lift. That way it'll naturally have a slight nose-down tendency, which is generally more stable.

No FAR, but it will be better explained by watching than me saying so.

Edited October 1, 2013 by WhiteWeasel

[Nasakev]

I'm not totally familiar with the b9 parts, but in planes the CoM tends to move backwards as fuel is depleted. When the CoM is behind the CoL, the plane will tend to flip and be hard to control.

If a plane stalls and falls, the CoM will fall underneath the CoL. If the CoM is in the back of your plane, it will fall tail-first and be nearly impossible to right.

[WhiteWeasel]

If a plane stalls and falls, the CoM will fall underneath the CoL. If the CoM is in the back of your plane, it will fall tail-first and be nearly impossible to right.

That's exactly the problem I had. So put CoM a little further ahead of the CoL to fix it?

[Nasakev]

In general, yes. You can move wings backward, add mass to the front, etc.

[WhiteWeasel]

In general, yes. You can move wings backward, add mass to the front, etc.

So much more control! I can do aileron rolls, loops! And that one where you do loop unto your belly and roll 180!

[Nasakev]

Great! If you want it, here's the thread where I got my information. It's helped me make many great planes.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/29896-How-to-Make-a-Perfect-Space-Plane

[Yuri Kargarin]

Well in the stock game planes can be pretty crazy, like this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmysi5TziyM

[AletzN1]

Oh and chek the lonely CoT center of thrust and check if it is aligned with the CoM

[White Owl]

Okay, I watched a little bit of the video. Other people already talked about the CoM and CoL... If you're piloting an airplane with a keyboard, precision control (default keybinding is capslock) is more than just a good idea; it's almost a necessity. Never fly without precision control on.

A couple times I saw you try to turn with the rudder. Momentarily tried to yaw around in a flat turn. This is almost never a good idea. With very few exceptions mostly not applicable to KSP, the rudder is there to keep the nose aligned with the direction of flight. Doing anything else with it can lead to disaster.

I started to write something about the use of elevons instead of separate ailerons and elevators... but then I remembered this is stock KSP, not FAR.

[WhiteWeasel]

Flies like a charm now!