Oceans of Jool

[minerman30]

Apparently, Jupiter has an atmosphere of hydrogen/helium and is completely covered in an ocean of liquid hydrogen/helium. My idea was to us this and instead of a non-existant surface covering Jool, there could be a giant ocean completely covering it. This would allow for an actual Jool base to happen.

[Szkeptik]

I'm not sure that a Jool base should happen. Gravity on the surface is so strong that it would crush any ship way before it can reach the sea of hydrogen/helium. Not to mention if something could reach it, it surely couldn't float on top of a hydrogen sea. Everything sinks in hydrogen.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Szkeptik

[minerman30]

Well, you know, Kerbal physics and all. Besides, the craft gets destroyed at about -200 meters, not sea level. At lease you wouldn't have glitched craft.

[Decent Weasel]

Apparently, Jupiter has an atmosphere of hydrogen/helium and is completely covered in an ocean of liquid hydrogen/helium. My idea was to us this and instead of a non-existant surface covering Jool, there could be a giant ocean completely covering it. This would allow for an actual Jool base to happen.

But wouldn't Jupiter's conditions lead to supercritical, not compressed liquid, conditions in the liquid hydrogen? I mean, I'm assuming that's the case, given how warm jupiter's supposed to be deeper down. In that case you'd have no sharp interface between liquid and gas, no ocean surface - it'd just sort of slowly blur from a gas to a liquid.

[leax256]

I remember watching a video explaining what jupiter would look like if we could dive down to it's core. I believe the pressire and heat would desimate your craft long before you reached this.

I also think it mentioned this hydrogen can conduct electricity.

[Arbolus]

As said, it would be completely unfeasible for any kind of base to be able to survive long enough to reach the hydrogen ocean. Apart from anything else, it's a supercritical fluid that far down not a true liquid, which means that there's no real distinction between the liquid ocean and the gaseous atmosphere.

However, if it were only possible to autosave and change vessels while in an atmosphere, it would be interesting to try and build an atmospheric base held up by balloons. I tried once on Kerbin, using a 2km long chain of KAS winches to anchor me to the ground, but it would be good to be able to do it properly.

[-Velocity-]

You apparently have no idea of the intense pressures and temperatures that Jupiter's interior has. The metallic hydrogen layer is apparently under hundreds of gigapascals of pressure. 101.3 kPa is atmospheric pressure; so if the metallic hydrogen layer is under 300 GPa of pressure, that's around 3 MILLION atmospheres, or 3,000 times the pressure at the bottom of the Mariana Trench. Think about the incredible pressure vessels we have to build to survive at the bottom of the Mariana trench... then multiply that pressure by 3000.

Oh and I'm sure, that deep down into Jupiter, the temperature is already up to a few thousand degrees K.

Ah! Here we go. I underestimated the temperature. From Wikipedia:

The temperature and pressure inside Jupiter increase steadily toward the core. At the phase transition region where hydrogenâ€â€heated beyond its critical pointâ€â€becomes metallic, it is believed the temperature is 10,000 K and the pressure is 200 GPa.

So, in the sake of sanity, let's NOT simulate an ocean on Jool.

[lajoswinkler]

Wow, an .edu page about space with an incredibly erroneous graphic representation of Jupiter.

There is no liquid hydrogen in Jupiter.

The temperatures and pressures climb in such manner that hydrogen and helium turn into a supercritical fluid. There is no distinctive phase transition. It just gets more and more hot and stuffed.

There is a region of metallic hydrogen, but there isn't a strict boundary. There is no "sky" and "ocean". The pressures just grow until the hydrogen molecules are so cramped up together that their orbitals overlap and electrons flow through the material. It's then basically a metal and it happens with probably all elements.

Saturn, Uranus and Neptune are not an exception, however the latter two have more ices ("ice" is a term for water, ammonia; has nothing to do with temperature or phase) and they're the first ones that experience metallic properties because of their free electron pairs, something hydrogen doesn't have.

Uranus and Neptune have metallic water. Again, supercompressed supercritical fluid. No blocks of silver-looking stuff. No waves, no oceans sloshing around.

Conditions in gas/ice giants are pure hell and there is absolutely no concieveable probe that could ever reach the metallic regions. Even if we ignore the pressures, the temperatures are so high that every known matter would melt in it (even if it doesn't, the heat bleeding in it would destroy the electronics).

Edited October 2, 2013 by lajoswinkler

[AngelLestat]

The only way to explore a gas giant is with a probe (due to the high levels of G or radiation) using a hot ballon that traps the atmosphere gas (hidrogen, heliom or werever) heat up and then it can stay in any altitude that the probe choose. Where the temperatures and pressure are acceptable.

Although turbulence can be a problem.

[-Velocity-]

I remember watching a video explaining what jupiter would look like if we could dive down to it's core. I believe the pressire and heat would desimate your craft long before you reached this.

I also think it mentioned this hydrogen can conduct electricity.

It's not hard to picture what Jupiter looks like inside.

Maybe add a slight bluish tinge to that once you start nearing the core.

Must have been a pretty boring video.

Edited October 2, 2013 by |Velocity|

[boomerdog2000]

And we're completely sure Jool has a hydrogen atmosphere then?

[Sun]

I always thought Jool was made of Kethane because of its green color! I would like to see a huge planet-wide green ocean at the surface! After all, if you want realism, take away the time warp.

[lajoswinkler]

And we're completely sure Jool has a hydrogen atmosphere then?

Basically all volatile matter behaves like this in planets. Liquids are in fact very special and exist in a narrow regions of phase diagrams of volatiles. Chances are that you aren't going to find liquid volatiles almost anywhere in the universe.

[Arran]

Jool has an ocean, a ocean of black nothingness, where the pressure is so high you'r ship get squashed and light doesnt escape anymore..

Believe me, jeb tried in name of Science

[Dooz]

I'm not sure that a Jool base should happen. Gravity on the surface is so strong that it would crush any ship way before it can reach the sea of hydrogen/helium. Not to mention if something could reach it, it surely couldn't float on top of a hydrogen sea. Everything sinks in hydrogen.

Funfact about jool jool's surface gravity is laythe like gravity! Because i sent a floating platform with hooligan labs with kerbals but still a ocean would be laggy lag lag