Boat momentum challege

[seanth]

There have been challenges to build the fastest boat, and there have been heavy lift rocket challenges. Welcome to the boat momentum challenge, where the total mass of your craft, multiplied by its speed (kg*m/s, or momentum) is your score.

Arguably, building a very heavy AND fast boat is harder than building a very light and fast boat, so let the kerbalizing begin!

Records:

Ezriilc -- []PMV Kolossus

--- 30,076,328 Ns

Seanth ---

Major Strangways

--- 24,267,090 Ns

Ezriilc ---

PMV Kolossus 24MNs

--- 24,009,000 Ns*

Seanth ---

Striking Kaiser

--- 15,532,728 Ns

Ezriilc ---

Water Speed 288

--- 15,484,480 Ns*

Seanth ---

The Vasa

--- 8,716,351 Ns*

Ezriilc ---

Water Speed X2

--- 8,157,064 Ns*

Seanth ---

Too Many Pancakes

--- 4,287,902 Ns*

Seanth ---

Drake's Passage

--- 3,762,780 Ns*

Submission Guidelines

Please include images or video of:

1.) The boat being transported to the water (see below).

2.) The boat moving through liquid at that speed.

3.) The craft's mass has to be shown.

Rules:

Pretty much the same as the

Build the fastest boat

challenge.

-Boats need to travel from their launch point--be it the spaceplane runway or the rocket launch site--to the water rather than be moved to the water using a tool such as Hyperedit. You can use a disposable transport craft if you like, but the mass to be used in the score should be for the boat alone.

-The craft must be carrying at least one Kerbal.

-No mods, save file edits or non stock parts. The exceptions to this are the inclusion of a single MechJeb or k-OS part. You can also use the Tec Fuel balancer utility. Really, anything can be installed as long as it's not adding parts or altering how parts work.

-Use of the debug toolbar is strictly not allowed.

-New submissions should be made in the latest version of KSP.

*Note: There was a minor change to the rules on 2013-10-09 which required people to taxi their craft into the water and not magically transport them there using editors like Hyperedit. Craft submissions before the rule change are grandfathered in.

Note #2: In the end the two leading designs hit on modular formats that would just allow for the addition of more and more weight. If the challenge ever gets revived, I suggest that the scoring be calculated as (mass*velocity)/(# of parts)

Edited October 18, 2013 by seanth

[seanth]

To start things off, I'll submit two versions of a craft I previously used to circumnavigate the planet.

First up, Drake's Passage:

Speed: 51.0m/s

Mass: 73.78t (73,780kg)

Momentum score: 3,762,780 kg*m/s

Second, (retroactively named)Too Many Pancakes. Too Many Pancakes is exactly the same ship design as Drake's Passage, but still has full tanks of oxidizer, making it much heavier.

Speed: 39.4m/s

Mass: 108.83t (108,830kg)

Momentum score: 4,287,902 kg*m/s

I have to say I didn't expect Too Many Pancakes to beat Drake's Passage.

[Ezriilc]

Awesome! I'm going to do some testing and submit the best boat I have.

[Ezriilc]

I figured if MechJeb is allowed, then perhaps you won't mind if I use him to display the mass, in the same shot as the speed.

Please tell me if I've done this right.

Ship: Water Speed X2

Speed: 237.4 m/s

Mass: 34.36 tonne, 34,360 kg

Momentum: 8,157,064

EDIT: BTW, this ship will max out at over 260 m/s, and do it for a very long time, but I've never tested the distance. Circumnavigation is a cool goal that I will shoot for now.

I've learned a great deal since this ship was built, so my next one should be quite a bit better.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Ezriilc

[seanth]

Love it, Ezriilc. I can see I'm going to have to improve on my designs and see if I can squeeze more speed out of my ships. Seeing as how I only had 2 normal jet engines, I think there is room for improvement.

Edited October 4, 2013 by seanth

[Ezriilc]

Thanks!

You'd better get going . That ship was one I had just lying around the lab, and it's not nearly as big and fast as some others I've made. This is a great challenge, and I can see that there's all kinds of room for improvement.

Let the one-ups-manship begin!

[seanth]

Thanks!

You'd better get going . That ship was one I had just lying around the lab, and it's not nearly as big and fast as some others I've made. This is a great challenge, and I can see that there's all kinds of room for improvement.

Let the one-ups-manship begin!

Cool. You're on. I'm probably going to limit myself to a general kind class of design, though. My exercise in boat building is to figure out ways of transporting heavy loads across water. For example:

So all my current ships have a similar design scheme (retractable wheels for pick up/delivery onland, etc). Having said that, I'm excited to see what I can squeeze out of these guys.

[Ezriilc]

My exercise in boat building is to figure out ways of transporting heavy loads across water. ... So all my current ships have a similar design scheme (retractable wheels for pick up/delivery onland, etc). Having said that, I'm excited to see what I can squeeze out of these guys.

I like that idea. Now you have me thinking about the same things - circumnavigation, heavy amphibious transport... Hmmm...

[Ezriilc]

It's cute that you use a Mac. What grade are you in?

[seanth]

It's cute that you use a Mac. What grade are you in?

Oh, man. It's totally on, now.

Name: The Vasa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship)

Speed: 104.3m/s

Mass: 83.57t (83,570kg)

Momentum score: 8,716,351 kg*m/s

this ship will max out at over 260 m/s, and do it for a very long time, but I've never tested the distance. Circumnavigation is a cool goal that I will shoot for now.

I just realized that at 260m/s, that ship would give you a score of close to 9 million. I'd better start coming with some better ideas....

Edited October 5, 2013 by seanth

[Ezriilc]

Oh, man. It's totally on, now.

Name: The Vasa (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship)

Speed: 104.3m/s

Mass: 83.57t (83,570kg)

Momentum score: 8,716,351 kg*m/s

Excellent. An adversary that may challenge my skill. I was hoping it wouldn't take too long. Now to whip out the big guns.

...

I just realized that at 260m/s, that ship would give you a score of close to 9 million. I'd better start coming with some better ideas....

Especially considering how... ehem... laterally non-horizontal that ship seems to be. Did it take many explosive deaths to achieve that screenshot? You must have Jeb clones popping up through the floor, like Sam -"Bell"- Rockwell in "Moon".

P.S. I have a GED and I'm not afraid to use it, but stop giving your ships such cool names from history - you're making me look bad. Or at least keep providing links to info on them... thanks. It would seem the name of this vessel is rather appropriate.

[Ezriilc]

[yawn] Oh, here's another ship I had on the shelf. It's kinda ugly, but stable like a pool table.

Ship: Water Speed 288 (yes, I know - boring)

Mass: 58.30 tonne (58,300 kg)

Speed: 265.6 m/s

Momentum: 15,484,480 (kg*m/s)

Next?

[seanth]

Oh Snap.

Yeah. The Vasa had some...uh...stability problems. It listed to the side pretty quickly once it rolled into the water, and experienced explosive disassembly shortly after that image was taken.

I think Water Speed 288 is a beautiful looking craft. It sort of reminds me of Discovery One from the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey. It will take me at least a day to put together my next entry. I'm slightly nervous since you casually _doubled_ your score.

[SunJumper]

There have been challenges to build the fastest boat, and there have been heavy lift rocket challenges. Welcome to the boat momentum challenge, where the total mass of your craft, multiplied by its speed (kg*m/s, or momentum) is your score.

Arguably, building a very heavy AND fast boat is harder than building a very light and fast boat, so let the kerbalizing begin!

Records:

Ezriilc ---

Water Speed 288

--- 15,484,480

Seanth ---

The Vasa

--- 8,716,351

Ezriilc ---

Water Speed X2

--- 8,157,064

Seanth ---

Too Many Pancakes

--- 4,287,902

Seanth ---

Drake's Passage

--- 3,762,780

Rules:

Pretty much the same as the Build the fastest boat challenge.

-For a speed to be accepted, a screenshot or video must be provided of the boat moving through

liquid

at that speed.

-A screenshot showing the craft's mass has to be submitted as well

-The craft must be carrying at least one Kerbal during the speedrun.

-No mods, save file edits or non stock parts. The exceptions to this are the inclusion of a single MechJeb or k-OS part. You can also use the Tec Fuel balancer utility. Really, anything can be installed as long as it's not adding parts or altering how parts work.

-Use of the debug toolbar is strictly not allowed.

-New submissions should be made in the latest version of KSP.

Aww

This probably got up to 260,000,000kgm/s...

(Actually this with glue-on boosters)

[Ezriilc]

Oh Snap.

I'm trying so hard to act all tough and talk smack, but it's just not in me to keep up. I am, however very competitive, and this is a great contest.

Yeah. The Vasa had some...uh...stability problems. It listed to the side pretty quickly once it rolled into the water, and experienced explosive disassembly shortly after that image was taken.

Called it!

I think Water Speed 288 is a beautiful looking craft. It sort of reminds me of Discovery One from the movie 2001: A Space Odyssey.

Thanks! Momma and I had thought it quite ugly. But you've flattered me into agreeing with you. I have other ships that I find truly sexy, like "Water Beauty & Speed", and my next entry here is not bad either.

Your ship looks very interesting - in a good way - and I'm hoping you'll share your craft files. I have most of my good ones available for download on my website, and I'm working on an upload page so others can easily share their stuff.

It will take me at least a day to put together my next entry. I'm slightly nervous since you casually _doubled_ your score.

I actually feel bad about this, but... you have good reason to be nervous. I've finished my first purpose-built craft for this challenge, and it's... pretty amazing.

Should I wait for you to beat my current score, or just go ahead and submit my latest entry right away?

---

...PIC...

Aww

This probably got up to 260,000,000kgm/s...

(Actually this with glue-on boosters)

Holy freakin' cow, is that on LAND?!

[seanth]

I am, however very competitive, and this is a great contest.

Go ahead and submit your next craft if you want. No need to wait on me. I have some work related commitments I need to deal with over the next few days, but that's no reason to wait on me.

I feel like I should have included a rule that people needed to get their craft into the water using legit means vs hyperedit. Some of my test craft have been so heavy that they just crumple on the runway, but I know they'd be fine in the water.

I like the idea of posting the craft files. I need to find a site I can throw them up on. Suggestions?

[briansun1]

i'll give this a try when I have time...

[Ezriilc]

Go ahead and submit your next craft if you want. No need to wait on me. I have some work related commitments I need to deal with over the next few days, but that's no reason to wait on me.

No hurry, and I don't want to steam-roll you. But I did think you might want to know what you're shooting for.

I feel like I should have included a rule that people needed to get their craft into the water using legit means vs hyperedit. Some of my test craft have been so heavy that they just crumple on the runway, but I know they'd be fine in the water.

I actually like that rule, since it adds a whole new dimension to it for me - I've been using HyperEdit to land my water craft from the get-go. An additional benefit of that rule, is that it knocks me off my high-horse nicely. In all seriousness, if you want to institute that, I don't mind. I will say that driving off the runway or launch pad in an extremely large ship can be... tricky.

I like the idea of posting the craft files. I need to find a site I can throw them up on. Suggestions?

I will get my own upload page fixed up so we can have full control and flexibility, like a whole page just for this challenge, with screenies and all. I should have something ready in the next few days - that good?

[briansun1]

I like the idea of posting the craft files. I need to find a site I can throw them up on. Suggestions?

tinyupload.com

[Ezriilc]

[TABLE=class: grid]

[TR]

[TD]Ship[/TD]

[TD]PMV_Kolossus_24MNs.craft[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Mass (m)[/TD]

[TD]160,060 kg[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Speed (v)[/TD]

[TD]150.0 m/s[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Momentum (p)[/TD]

[TD]24,009,000 kg m/s (Ns)[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

As you can see, I used HyperEdit to launch the ship, but this will be the last one. I wanted to show that I'm not in the air, so I told MJ to display the Altitude (bottom), which I just noticed seems to be showing water depth. Kind interesting, but useless for our purposes. I fixy next time. The Nav-ball speed is different from MJ's, so I used the lesser.

This one is pretty ugly, but the oblique-angled aerospikes look pretty cool against the night.

I'm also working on my Next Generation PMV craft, but the ideas of global navigation, cargo transport and now self-launching give me pause.

[Ezriilc]

I'm remembering more clearly why I started using HyperEdit way back when...

Regarding the launching of water craft without HyperEdit, what do ya'all think about...

single-use, disposable running gear that is ejected after entering the water? Is that in keeping with the spirit of this challenge?

For some reason, it felt wrong to just slap tank wheels on it only to chuck 'em at the beach - especially if being fully amphibious is important.

Perhaps you (seanth) could describe how you normally do this kind of thing, since it's your challenge, and give us some more detailed rules. The nerd in me likes detailed rules a lot.

[seanth]

Perhaps you (seanth) could describe how you normally do this kind of thing, since it's your challenge, and give us some more detailed rules. The nerd in me likes detailed rules a lot.

Later tonight I will address this in more depth. I think having a disposable launching stage is completely acceptable. irl people have boat trailers, right? In my designs I keep wheels attached to my ships (you can see them in my posted images). I use the non-powered, retractable wheels, and two powered wheels on the front. That way I can better control speed and direction of the craft as it moves down the runway and then down to the shore.

General tips:

-Don't enter the water any faster than around 7 to 10m/s. I keep my entry at around 5m/s or below

-Leaving the runway is a huge drop. Design accordingly, or gently get off the runway on the sides early on and trudge to the sea over the grass. I use both methods depending on my design

-Be careful braking. When you have a lot of mass, all that momentum can tear you craft apart if you just hit the brakes (heh. break vs brake edit). Butterfly the brake button vs. just slamming on it

So, is it acceptable to add a new rule about no hyperedit launches for future craft, but existing submissions stand (maybe a * next to them saying they were submitted before the new rule)? Allow disposable launch stages (boat trailer ), but there has to be an image of the boat on the launch craft as part of the submission. Fair?

[Ezriilc]

irl people have boat trailers, right?

Very true, but they don't explode over 10m/s.

In my designs I keep wheels attached to my ships (you can see them in my posted images). I use the non-powered, retractable wheels, and two powered wheels on the front. That way I can better control speed and direction of the craft as it moves down the runway and then down to the shore.

That's why I'd like to see your .craft files. But by my experience, the drag when those parts are in the water is just monstrous, and seems to make high speeds impossible.

General tips:

-Don't enter the water any faster than around 7 to 10m/s. I keep my entry at around 5m/s or below

-Leaving the runway is a huge drop. Design accordingly, or gently get off the runway on the sides early on and trudge to the sea over the grass. I use both methods depending on my design

-Be careful braking. When you have a lot of mass, all that momentum can tear you craft apart if you just hit the brakes (heh. break vs brake edit). Butterfly the brake button vs. just slamming on it

I'll add:

- I try to keep it under 5 m/s at entry, cuz KSP is just itching for a chance to blow up your stuff.

- The Westerly (starting) end of the runway has a much shorter ramp to the ground, but the terrain from there to the beach can be rough in places.

- Not sure about others, but my brakes seem to operate on a bit of a delay. Holding the "b" button long enough causes them to lock up completely and then sometimes(!) take quite a long time to release. This can make gentle braking a very difficult thing to master, or even impossible to predict. Reverse and directional thrusters can be very useful when keyed to Action Groups.

So, is it acceptable to add a new rule about no hyperedit launches for future craft, but existing submissions stand (maybe a * next to them saying they were submitted before the new rule)? Allow disposable launch stages (boat trailer ), but there has to be an image of the boat on the launch craft as part of the submission. Fair?

I'm fine with all that!

[Theriss]

What's this? Another boat challenge? Ugh, I thought I was done with boats... sigh...

I guess I'll have to hop back in the water again...

[Ezriilc]

What's this? Another boat challenge? Ugh, I thought I was done with boats... sigh...

I guess I'll have to hop back in the water again...

Yay, competition! seanth should update his OP with the new rules. You gotta "drive" it to the water on a "trailer", and get a shot of that too, which is proving to be quite the challenge, but I've got a ship in the works...