Types of Science

[allmappedout]

After seeing Harvester's blog, I posted a couple of questions underneath, repeated below. I thought it might be worth throwing them out there for discussion.

I've left the questions verbatim because I'm lazy

Two questions:

Presumably, different types of Biomes will provide different benefits with Science? ie: Exploring Kerbin's Icecaps may give you a better boost in understanding cryogenics which could be beneficial to improving your fuel efficiency or something (poor example, but you get my point), or exploring Eve's atmosphere would help design an improved Aerospike, etc. Or is it simply a case that they all contribute general science points and you assign them ad-hoc? It'd be nice to see you being able to focus your experiments to help gain specific advances, maybe using Kerbin desert science to advance rover wheel technology for travelling on the Mun, if you have any enjoyment of one specific area you want to focus on.

Second question:

Does altitude matter? It's my understanding that you can scan from orbit to get science. Is there a kind of 3D map around the planet in a similar fashion, so that if you were past geo-synchronous you could study the Kerbal equivalent of Van Allen belts, and if you were in LKO you would get science for atmospheric drag properties or somesuch? Obviously based on my first question, whether you gain just 'science' or specific aspects of science it could be more interesting to have the different aspects but an easier mechanic to have just a bulk science score..

[boomerdog2000]

One thing I was curious about is Harv talked about being able to use Kerbals to take samples and return them to Kerbin. What about probes? Do probes have the capability to gather scientific data and return it to Kerbin or is it just kerbalnaughts for now?

[Leberschnitzel]

As I have understood, you are able to do some experiments without kerbals and collect data, but many also need Kerbals to do the experiments. I guess that taking samples of the ground is more a kerbal only thing.

[allmappedout]

One thing I was curious about is Harv talked about being able to use Kerbals to take samples and return them to Kerbin. What about probes? Do probes have the capability to gather scientific data and return it to Kerbin or is it just kerbalnaughts for now?

That's a very good point which I hadn't considered! It would make using a skycrane even more imperative if you could then use said crane to lift the rover back to Kerbin! Although to be fair, most rovers have a lot of on-board spectrometers, magic and widgets^tm to do the science there, which I suppose would preclude the samples needing to be brought back (ie: the same experiments would be run back home).

I always see samples being brought back as mostly a prestige thing, and whilst I understand the gameplay benefit of rewarding a successful return mission with samples, if the science can be done in-situ, that's usually almost as good, if not as good, as having it back on Earth (particularly looking at Curiosity here, which is car sized and full to the brim with gubbins).

[boomerdog2000]

That's why I'm wondering if the science can indeed be done in-situ, by the probe, without having to have a kerbal present to perform the experiment and transmit the data.

[allmappedout]

I guess we will have to wait and see. Obviously I'm very excited about the science feature, I just hope that what's delivered is just the beginning as there's so much they can do to flesh out how it works, and since Science^TM is pretty much the overriding reason people go to space today, I'd like to see it being a full and exciting feature.

[NoMrBond]

There was a way for probes to collect samples that was shown a longgggg time ago, not sure if it's still even applicable

There was something similar for solid/rock samples also

But your probe had to come back to Kerbin and be recovered of course

[allmappedout]

Well, you say of course, but like we were mentioning above, Curiosity isn't coming back to Earth ( ), but is still providing valuable science off the back of samples, and doing all the experiments in-situ that we would do back here. Getting moon rock back to Earth was important in the 70s because we were limited by the amount of time astronauts could spend there, so doing the research into it was a time factor. But given how modern scientific investigation goes now, there's little to no difference between the scientific equipment on Earth and the top of the range stuff attached to a rover.

Saying that, it gives me an idea that potentially you could have different quality bits of equipment; do you want a basic overview? Take a camera, do you want detailed analysis, mass spec, etc etc - weight/electricity become issues to build into your model as well then.

[boomerdog2000]

We might finally have something to fill out the science tab in the VAB.

[allmappedout]

That can only be a good thing. Plus once the infrastructure is in place, it'll be cool to see how the mod community handles it all.

[rkman]

Didn't they mention radio comms as a means to get science data back to Kerbin?

I expect there will be both, sample-and-return (manned and unmanned) and data collection.

[boomerdog2000]

Yes they mentioned returning the data, but we don't know if the probes are able to actually gather science without a kerbal present to transmit back.

[ngianoplus]

So are we getting these?

I sure hope so.

[ngianoplus]

Yes they mentioned returning the data, but we don't know if the probes are able to actually gather science without a kerbal present to transmit back.

I am pretty certain you can beam info back with a probe (no kerbal).

What we don't know is if unmanned sample analysis is possible. Personally I would love to see it, however, I think having it be Kerbal only would give you an incentive to do manned missions.

[boomerdog2000]

Maybe kerbals would give you more science, and return samples that would be worth more.

[KrazyKrl]

Types of science would, of course, be a requirement. And as for recovering science, I believe you should have the availability to move ScienceResources between vehicles nearby. Until something like KAS is implemented in unmodded KSP, you may need to take a manned mission to your rover, and recover science with a Kerbal.