SSTO able to send Orange Tank to standard KLO (Kerbin Lower Orbit 70km)?

[Sirine]

SSTO able to send Orange Tank to standard KLO (Kerbin Lower Orbit 70km)?

'm trying to build one...currently able to lift the plane with orange tank to 30,000m. 1500m/s (Continue to improving)

Just wander is it possible to be done? or is there anyone already done it?

My definition for SSTO (Single Stage to Orbit).

1) Drop nothing during takeoff until standard orbit, detach payload (orange tank).

2) Major in TurboJet Engine. Rocket engine are secondary to PUSH to orbit.

3) Payload (Orange tank) must be full all-the-time.

100% stock only.

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Edited October 7, 2013 by Sirine

[Cadenza]

You should be able to manage it if your careful with weight and balance but it will be a challenge, you "should" be able to get to about 55k-60k from the turbo jets with enough intake and momentum although with that much weight it might be an issue, as for getting it into orbit i don't think it's going to be possible unless you use fuel from the orange tank, try 4-6 engines with just one fuel tank feeding them and then ditch them and use rockets to get into the final orbit.

Not exactly single stage but i think it's about the only way your going to manage it stock.

[Arbolus]

Perhaps by 15km the air density is so low that you're not generating enough lift to stay up. All I can suggest is to either make the wings much bigger and add more turbojets, or to switch to rocket engines sooner. Either way you'll need a lot more fuel.

I think I could do this with a VTOL SSTO, but a spaceplane is a much harder challenge indeed. I'll have to have a think about it.

[arq]

I've built one that can move 44t of fuel up to LKO (just under 1.4 OJ tanks). However, this is all in it's fuselage -it would take some reorganization to make the payload detachable (though it could still dock and transfer the fuel wherever). That said, I used Procedural Wings to make it. pWings is stock-balanced, so it's certainly possible to do stock, but it does make things much easier because I could make 4 large lifting surfaces instead of stitching dozens of wing sections.

For reference, it masses 144t on the ground and uses 31 intakes, 10 turbojets, 1 mainsail, and 2 LV-Ns. This gives it a payload fraction of 30% (almost double what a well-staged rocket could do). Once in orbit, that fuel gives it a range of over 5km/s, which means it might possibly be able to do a Laythe landing and return (when a transfer window opens up I'll find out).

EDIT: So, that take-away is that yes it is possible. However, your craft will be ~100t on the ground. I really do recommend pWings to simplify the construction process, lower partcount, and improve aesthetic.

Edited October 6, 2013 by arq

[Sirine]

@arq screenshot of the air-ceiling before switch to mainsail will be appreciated...Just need to check on air-intake, speed, and altitude value.

[arq]

Imma need to go re-fly it, then (this was a project a few weeks ago). IIRC, it made it up around 25km and 1300m/s before the switch. But I could have made it a little higher if I was more willing to babysit the throttle.

I'll see if I have some time today to get a SS.

[Sirine]

@arq thanks in advance.

[arq]

Sorry that these are night shots, but I really didn't think to warp to morning before starting.

27km at 1320m/s, right before changing to rockets

Switch to rockets until ~2000m/s, cut the mainsail and circularize on just the LV-N's

And I made it to orbit with 43.6t of rocket fuel (wasn't one of my better launches, I cut the mainsail too early and had to burn it again later), plus about 20% of the jet fuel left for landing maneuvers. It's 91t at this point, so 5100m/s of delta-v left in the LV-N's

(technically I wasn't quite out of atmo at peri at this point, but it was only a few m/s to bump that up)

[antbin]

Yes, I've done it. Full orange tank and then some.

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Edited October 6, 2013 by antbin

[Moar Boosters]

While it doesn't use orange tanks, one of my designs gets into orbit with over 8000 liquid fuel....... almost 3 orange tanks worth. It doesn't have quite enough oxidizer to match this, but it's supposed to save some liquid fuel for the jets when it lands. It wasn't primarily designed as a fuel tanker, although it can double as one it's a pain in the bum to access all the fuel tanks to click on, as they're hidden under the wing. It's main purpose is to fly to other planets, it has a VTOL jet underneath for landing on non-atmospheric planets.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Moar Boosters

[Just_Testing]

While it doesn't use orange tanks, one of my designs gets into orbit with over 8000 liquid fuel....... almost 3 orange tanks worth. It doesn't have quite enough oxidizer to match this, but it's supposed to save some liquid fuel for the jets when it lands. It wasn't primarily designed as a fuel tanker, although it can double as one it's a pain in the bum to access all the fuel tanks to click on, as they're hidden under the wing. It's main purpose is to fly to other planets, it has a VTOL jet underneath for landing on non-atmospheric planets.

Now that's impressive... how much dV does it have once in LKO?

[Sirine]

Thanks all for the input. I have the confident it can be done now. My 30km 1500m/s is pretty close. Think I can make it work by today.

[Moar Boosters]

Now that's impressive... how much dV does it have once in LKO?

Hard to say. Around 6-7k I think. Mech jeb is unable to calculate it properly though, it gets confused because its got 4 sets of engines all sharing the same fuel tanks. Jets for takeoff, LVT-30's to get into orbit, Nervas once in orbit, and the white radials for the VTOL. Mechjeb assumes everything is firing at once, so it doesn't calculate the dv properly.

[Vector]

You didn't say horizontal takeoff and you didn't say no airhogging, so I'm not sure if these are constraints for you. A week or so back I built a vertical-launch SSTO (lands using parachutes) that can deliver an orange tank to LKO.

68.88 tons in VAB and not difficult to get to orbit. You can add extra bipropellant and still get to orbit no problem, if you find yourself running out of fuel while trying to rendezvous. This version cut down the bipropellant to try to maximize the payload fraction, but it's got capacity to spare so it works fine with a bit of extra weight.

Just for you, I ripped off MechJeb and uploaded here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/u0cckrmmi50sczg/SSTO%20Whole%20Can%20Fueler%203_2.craft

[chemieglennie]

Vector - that looks awesome. I was trying to build something similar last week but failed miserably. How did you get the air intakes to attach to the sides of the tank like that?

[Hodo]

Never mind, someone got upset.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Hodo

[antbin]

One orange tank psh... try two in the cargo bay, without Mechjeb and using FAR.

100% stock only.

With enough mods you can lift anything.

[Hodo]

With enough mods you can lift anything.

I know its not stock. But its also not clipped, hogged or mechjeb'd. But building a stock lifter isn't that much harder, slap a bunch of SRBs on to a 9ton tank, and put a rockomax decoupler on it slap the orange tank on the top with a few smaller tanks on the side with regular rockets and you can blow it to an orbit of 70km. And use SRBs to return to surface with chutes and landing gear, job done. It won't be pretty but it is possible.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Hodo

[Moar Boosters]

I know its not stock. But its also not clipped, hogged or mechjeb'd. But building a stock lifter isn't that much harder, slap a bunch of SRBs on to a 9ton tank, and put a rockomax decoupler on it slap the orange tank on the top with a few smaller tanks on the side with regular rockets and you can blow it to an orbit of 70km. And use SRBs to return to surface with chutes and landing gear, job done. It won't be pretty but it is possible.

Putting parachutes on your SRBs does not mean it's an SSTO.

[Hodo]

Putting parachutes on your SRBs does not mean it's an SSTO.

It does if you don't jettison them.

[allmhuran]

I highly recommend switching out the rectangular "structural wings" for swept wings, it makes big aircraft lifts so much easier... and IMO it looks nicer too:

[Cheaterman]

OMFG Norad II!!! /me WANTS!!!