Bad news from NASA, should KSP follow suit?

[Whirligig Girl]

This is no "news". It's been known that this has happened/will have happened by now for decades.

[78stonewobble]

I think the white flag joke was actually an Imgur in joke that attempted to jump internet borders.

I personally think the next moon landing should be a collaboration of the largest and most capable space agencies. That is, I think the next landing should be a craft with an American (Canada or U.S. Citizen) a Euopean (from any of the countries that support ESA) a Russian and a Chinese.

When they land on the moon, none of them would speek. Instead, all four would step on the Moon, set up a camera and recite a poem to the world, each speaking parts of it. The last stanza, line, etc would be the four of them reciting in unison.

The flag they post on the Moon should just be a picture of Earth from both halves in front of a white background with a dove holding an olive branch.

Just thinking about this possibility brings tears to my eyes.

I'm against poetry on principle.

[Tech Support]

Regardless of that, there is probably still a coloured flag on the moon.

That's on the Luna 24 descent stage. As coloured enamel, it'll be a lot more resistant to UV than dyed fabric. There's also a flag on the side of Chang'e 3, but that'll have gone the way of the apollo flags soon enough.

the Indian probe had a flag on the sides too, but they sent it in gray scale

But since it was the Moon 'Impact' Probe, I doubt it survived

[Carter]

The flag may have been bleached white, but the stars and stripes are still there. There is only one country on planet Earth whose flag has 50 stars and 13 stripes, none of the 6 banners on the Moon will ever be mistaken for anything but the flag of the United States of America.

[Nibb31]

The flag may have been bleached white, but the stars and stripes are still there. There is only one country on planet Earth whose flag has 50 stars and 13 stripes, none of the 6 banners on the Moon will ever be mistaken for anything but the flag of the United States of America.

You're assuming the flag is even still there. The nylon it was made of has probably degraded under the UV and temperature cycles so much that it has probably crumbled to dust.

[Carter]

You're assuming the flag is even still there. The nylon it was made of has probably degraded under the UV and temperature cycles so much that it has probably crumbled to dust.

Probably. I'd really like to visit the landing sites some day and see for myself. We went to the Moon so much that it just wasn't a big deal to us anymore. Nowadays we know we could do it again, but why bother? It saddens me to think that humanity seems content with the pinnacle of human achievement having come and gone, and that we are past the climax. There are no more frontiers, everywhere that we've ever gone is only where we'll ever go. Here I go, rambling about my feelings again. I do not know why I do this.

[PakledHostage]

We went to the Moon so much that it just wasn't a big deal to us anymore. Nowadays we know we could do it again, but why bother?

"We" stopped sending people to the moon because the rewards no longer outweighed the risks. Once the Apollo 11 landed, the race with the USSR was over. They took tremendous risks sending missions to the moon. They were lucky that nothing worse than Apollo 13 happened in the process. If you watch the documentary "In the Shadow of the Moon", you can even see the fear in Neil Armstrong's eyes the night before the launch. And he was a test pilot.

They went to the moon because, at the time, it was worth the risk in the hopes of winning the propaganda victory. Today, you need more than cool video of people loping around the moon's surface to justify the cost and risk to human life. We didn't stop going because we got complacent.

[Carter]

Today, you need more than cool video of people loping around the moon's surface to justify the cost and risk to human life.

You sound like the kind of guy who would have told Magellan not to go.

[Kryten]

You sound like the kind of guy who would have told Magellan not to go.

Given Magellan's trip killed him and practically his entire crew, that may not be the best example.

[Nibb31]

Explaining why we aren't going to the moon is not advocating that we shouldn't.

[Carter]

Given Magellan's trip killed him and practically his entire crew, that may not be the best example.

I believe it is a perfectly good example. Magellan's death was not in vain. Just because an endeavor is dangerous does not mean it should not be undertaken. This is exactly what I am talking about.

[Kryten]

Magellan left to make a bunch of money from the spice trade; him dying pretty clearly interfered with that.

[Carter]

Magellan left to make a bunch of money from the spice trade; him dying pretty clearly interfered with that.

And that's all? Do you think that when he set out to do what no one had done before the only thing that was on his mind was money?

Edited September 23, 2014 by Carter
Missed a word/Incomplete sentence

[Kryten]

Yes. tenchars

[Carter]

Yes. tenchars

Believing that someone cannot have more than one motivation (monetary) for doing incredible things is, in my opinion, a tragic state of mind to have.

[Kryten]

Believing people have noble motivations with zero evidence is a tragic state of mind to have. Magellan responded to a request by the spanish king to find a route to spice islands, and negotiated a bunch of purely commercial concessions as part of it.

[Carter]

Believing people have noble motivations with zero evidence is a tragic state of mind to have. Magellan responded to a request by the spanish king to find a route to spice islands, and negotiated a bunch of purely commercial concessions as part of it.

If there were a big old pot of gold on Mars for the taking I'd go and get it, but not just because of the pot of gold. That's why I believe there is more behind the great accomplishments of famous people throughout history than just greed. Sure, the financial reward is a significant motivator, but I am not so cynical as to be believe it is blinding.

Edit: I am afraid we are venturing outside of the Forum Rules now, specifically 2.2b. I will stop.

Edited September 23, 2014 by Carter
Rules

[PakledHostage]

You sound like the kind of guy who would have told Magellan not to go.

Straw man much? As a sailor with over 10000 offshore sea miles under his belt, I absolutely would have encouraged Magellan to go despite my all too real understanding of the risks. Likewise, I would have been there cheering on the Apollo missions right up until the very end. I love an adventure, whether I undertake it myself or whether I do so vicariously through someone else. But the fact remains that there is currently no justification that warrants the cost and risk of manned missions to the moon. No monetary reason. No prestige. No scientific reason. Maybe the situation would be different if we had infinite resources but we don't. We have to make do with what we've got, which means robotic missions or nothing. We didn't give up on sending people to the moon because we got bored of going there. That was the point of my original retort.

[Mr Shifty]

We have to make do with what we've got, which means robotic missions or nothing. We didn't give up on sending people to the moon because we got bored of going there. That was the point of my original retort.

Stephen Baxter's novel Voyage imagines an alternate history with a space program that progressed forward with crewed missions instead of going the LEO/robotics course. It culminates with human boots on Mars, but it's hard to argue that space exploration in general isn't poorer in that timeline with no Voyager discoveries, no Pioneer missions to the outer planets, no Mariner missions to Mercury, no plans for Hubble or Galileo.