Bad news from NASA, should KSP follow suit?

[G4S3FR]

Kind of symbolic. This really kind of shows how we shall never conquer space, all we sould do is surrender to the fact that we can't know everything.

Then again, I think we should continue exploring space. FOR SCIENCE! We'll never know everything, But we should find as much as we can.

[karolus10]

All Apollo LM Descent stages had metal plate attached to ladder before being left behind, unlike cheap and lightweight US flag, Plates has been made to last.

Also Richard Nixon was only head of state that had object with own name sitting of the moon .

Edited October 11, 2013 by karolus10

[softweir]

This sort of thing is really more Real-World Science, and not so much about the game, so I've moved it to The Science Labs.

[Kryten]

Also Richard Nixon was only head of state that had object with own name sitting of the moon

I'm not so sure about that, given the enormous number of various pennants the Soviets threw into the solar system. I've not found any with names on the moon, but I do know there are a few of these;

on venus.

[TMS]

Luckily, Venusians don't speak Russian.

[Canopus]

Luckily, Venusians don't speak Russian.

Do Moonmen speak English?

[Eric S]

Do Moonmen speak English?

Well, so far, every sentient on the moon has, but we're talking a fairly small sample set :-)

As to the other discussions, I'm glad someone is going back to the moon, I just wish that the first step down from humanity in my direction (which would be American) was still as interested in going there as they once were.

[Seret]

so you mean that the french got to the moon without going to the moon? Because the french national weapon is the white flag

Yawn. Can we please stop repeating the same lame joke?

[Canopus]

Well, so far, every sentient on the moon has, but we're talking a fairly small sample set :-)

I meant the native populaton ofcourse

[pokeman]

I wonder how long those survived on the surface, Venus is even less welcoming than the moon.

[Eric S]

I meant the native populaton ofcourse

We can be truthful in saying that every native we've discovered has as well. Isn't philosophy fun? :-) Of course, you could say the same for all native Venusians we've discovered being the god of missing socks, so we can assume that they speak whatever language they want to, as gods tend to do.

[rodion]

I wonder how long those survived on the surface, Venus is even less welcoming than the moon.

After thinking about it for a minute, I think they may actually have been preserved pretty well - Venus is hostile, but it isn't privy to a great amount of erosion or change on its surface landscape, either. Wind and rain erosion aren't a problem on Venus, probably because the atmosphere is so extremely dense that I don't think it's possible for wind to actually get around without all of its kinetic energy being wasted. Acid rain forms high in the atmosphere, but it evaporates long before it reaches the surface. Venus also barely experiences any seasonal change that might contribute to solid object erosion because its axial tilt is very small compared to Earth's. The only thing I can think of that might degrade the pennants in the long term is the relatively high percentage of corrosive and reactive gases (SO2, COS, HCl, HF) in the atmosphere that might react with the materials over time, but I have no knowledge of chemistry so I can't say what effect it might actually have, if any.

Edited October 11, 2013 by rodion
Word duplicates.

[MNorman]

If the plates are stainless steel then they actually become more resistant in an acidic atmosphere. There is additional initial corrosion, but this results in a thicker passivating layer of chromium oxide, which is then more protective.

[Kryten]

As far as I can tell they're titanium with pretty standard vitreous enamel for the coating. Not sure how well titanium stands up against stuff like concentrated sulphuric acid, but the enamel should be fine.

[3_bit]

I believe they were surrendering to the Great, Infinite and Divine Space Kracken.

[lajoswinkler]

After thinking about it for a minute, I think they may actually have been preserved pretty well - Venus is hostile, but it isn't privy to a great amount of erosion or change on its surface landscape, either. Wind and rain erosion aren't a problem on Venus, probably because the atmosphere is so extremely dense that I don't think it's possible for wind to actually get around without all of its kinetic energy being wasted. Acid rain forms high in the atmosphere, but it evaporates long before it reaches the surface. Venus also barely experiences any seasonal change that might contribute to solid object erosion because its axial tilt is very small compared to Earth's. The only thing I can think of that might degrade the pennants in the long term is the relatively high percentage of corrosive and reactive gases (SO2, COS, HCl, HF) in the atmosphere that might react with the materials over time, but I have no knowledge of chemistry so I can't say what effect it might actually have, if any.

Surface of Venus has very weak winds, but the atmosphere is so dense that low speeds could tip over a human. On Mars it's the opposite: extremely low pressure and very fast winds which can't knock over even a baby. The regolith particles are the greatest problem because only the speed matters, so you're right - wind on Venus will not damage anything unless it can be tipped over.

The corrosive gases (trace amounts on Venus surface) would not harm the metals because there's no water so no ions can be made. No fluids, no solutions, no reactions. MNorman is right - passivation would occur. Metals would get a protecting layer of halogenides and sulfates.

If the conditions were allowing liquid water, even in the form of occasional fog and dew, most of the material would be dissolved.

[SpaceSphereOfDeath]

I hope one day that a new flag is planted.

Hopefully Chinese, that would give NASA and ESA something to do

[tom1499]

I think this is a nice sign. The USA stepped on the moon and set their flag on them. Doing this they open the people's mind to space, and now space is open for everyone. Symboled by a white flag.

The borders in the people's minds slowly faded. The flags are telling us what we all should do. Slowly fading the borders in our head and seeing earth as it is. One.

I thought you were going to say that is was a sign as in when America went there their space industry was booming and ready to do anything. Now they are just faded colours on a blank sheet.....

[Drunken Hobo]

The poor old Apollo 14 flag had a bit of a shaky send-off:

Must have planted it well to keep it standing.

[Javster]

Interesting thing about the plaque being true about "We came in peace"

[rasheed]

They are not aluminum.... They are cloth.

It was held up by aluminum

[thescientist]

Everything end. If a flag became white due to UV, it's time to place another one...in other words IT'S TIME TO GO ON THE MOON AGAIN!

Our technology is much better than the one that brought the menkind on the moon, the only problem is that government would prefer to see a football match instead another Neil Armstrong on the Moon, as a remake of an old film...

Another thing: I'd like to see an international project, not just a ****-the-other- nation race-for-the-Moon. We are the most evoluted kinf of animal...and we still fight everyone isn't us...ya, let's it evolution, because "stupidity" may put us in the shame...

[kiwi1960]

Dear KSP-nuts!

In the 2nd post of mine in this thread, I said that the Chinese will be the next men on the moon, SORRY TO SAY!

One, at least, took this to mean I am American. I am not. the KIWI is the national bird of New Zealand, and it is what we New Zealanders are known as, Kiwi's, further, the rocket that never flies was called the "Kiwi" because the Kiwi also cannot fly, but the test facility was run by a Kiwi...

But in any event, what I meant was that the Chinese are not going to explore, but to mine the moon. They intend to dig up what they can and ship it back to Earth... to me, this is not a good idea. If we cannot look after one planet, then God knows what we will end up doing to the moon.

Our capitalist world is using up resources at the rate of 1.5 planets... meaning, we are wasting what this world has to give us... this is why the Chinese want.... no... need...to look at the Moon for resources.

If we ever want to live among the stars, then we have to learn to live within our means... food and water cannot be wasted on a slow space ship to another world... well, the Earth is our spaceship... we are killing ourselves.

We also should NOT go back to the Moon just to plant another flag... what would be the point of that?

We need to go to the moon to learn what we can of it, how to survive on it... and how to adapt to it..... those lessons can be used HERE to help us survive on Earth. You cannot have a coal power station on the Moon... you cannot really have one here either, so... solar? We need to bite the bullet and learn to live here and on the moon without hurting our futures....

This is why I believe in KSP, I'm 53 and I really think this game can be used to make children DREAM about living among the stars....

....who knows... a bright young man or woman is playing this game now and may well be the first man/woman to set foot on Pluto.... (or further away than that) and their dream started here.... with KSP.

DREAM, damn you.... DREAM!!!! Stop going on about the French... that joke is old... others here are talking about one world... how can we be one if one group makes jokes about another.... we are all human... we can all be friends too....

[Kryten]

You seriously think anybody is going to go to the moon to collect resources? Do you have the slightest idea how much it would cost to bring anything back from the moon?

[Seret]

You seriously think anybody is going to go to the moon to collect resources? Do you have the slightest idea how much it would cost to bring anything back from the moon?

Yeah, at current prices for shifting mass on that round trip, there aren't many resources that would make it viable. Tritium maybe, that's pretty valuable (around US$30M per kilo), and required for both nuclear weapons and tokamaks. No idea if there's much on the moon, and it'd probably still be cheaper to get it from Earth.