Make the first tech node meaningful

[NeilC]

I just started a new game and "launched" the Mk1 pod. That was all. Just the pod.

I created a crew report. I went EVA, took a sample, and filed an EVA report.

I earned 12 science.

I used 5 of it to unlock Basic Rocketry.

This makes no sense. I did only what would be covered in the first 15 seconds of any Science tutorial video, without even lighting an engine, and I advanced a tech node. If I hadn't watched or read or in some other way been told that I had the ability to do these things, I would not have known how to do these things. Why should I be rewarded for them with an entire tech node? It makes the first node meaningless, you might as well grant decouplers and Goo from the start - which is probably a good idea.

You should not be able to earn tech from the launch pad. Certainly not a node's worth. Kerbals already had to build the launchpad. What can they learn from it?

[astropapi1]

You should not be able to earn tech from the launch pad. Certainly not a node's worth. Kerbals already had to build the launchpad. What can they learn from it?

We're recovering F-1 engines from the bottom of the sea to learn from them. Just sayin'.

[NeilC]

Heh, fair enough. But we wouldn't be doing that unless we'd let a whole generation of rocket designers retire early to "cut costs" without training any replacements. Maybe if Kerbals had a backstory of epic resource mismanagement?

[astropapi1]

Heh, fair enough. But we wouldn't be doing that unless we'd let a whole generation of rocket designers retire early to "cut costs" without training any replacements. Maybe if Kerbals had a backstory of epic resource mismanagement?

You still have a point there. There's people unlocking all the tech nodes in ~3 launches.

[NeilC]

That's not really my point, which is why I made a separate post. Sure, elite players can game the tech system to the point it seems broken. That's true of Civ too, or Hearts of Iron, or any other game I've played with a tech tree. My point is that any monkey who can plop a pod and right-click can game the first node.

The tech tree itself can't teach you how to do science - that's the job of a tutorial, whether in-game or video or printed manual. Once you know how to do the basic mechanical point-and-clicks of science, unlocking the first node doesn't require building anything in the 0th node except the pod itself. Hell, if you could get the Kerbal out to the pad any other way you wouldn't have to build anything at all.

The first node isn't challenging. It isn't even fun. I think it's just broken.

[boomerdog2000]

Maybe if Kerbals had a backstory of epic resource mismanagement?

Considering many of their parts are from Jeb's scrapyard, they just might.

[Kerbart]

You know what, you're absolutely right.

The first 400 science points you shouldn't have access to anything. You should just spend hours and hours solving linear equations, learning to solve angular mathematics through complex numbers, demonstrate the ability to calculate hohmann transfers using nothing else but the standard calculator included on an iPhone.

Then and only then, gosh darnit,, should you have the right to release friggin' Jebediah Kerman just by himself to start gathering science points. He'll have to friggin' walk to the ocean, highlands and tundra to collect soil samples and walk back. Only around 1000 points (remember you'll have to unlock "iron smelting", "bessemer procedé", "advanced mettalurgics" and "mechanical engineering" first) you should have the ability to lay the foundations of the launch platform and only somewhere around 30,000 points (about two years of rw gameplay) you can hope to build your first rocket.

That would be far more realistic. On the off chance that it would shy away new players, but who cares?

[Bandock]

You know what, you're absolutely right.

The first 400 science points you shouldn't have access to anything. You should just spend hours and hours solving linear equations, learning to solve angular mathematics through complex numbers, demonstrate the ability to calculate hohmann transfers using nothing else but the standard calculator included on an iPhone.

Then and only then, gosh darnit,, should you have the right to release friggin' Jebediah Kerman just by himself to start gathering science points. He'll have to friggin' walk to the ocean, highlands and tundra to collect soil samples and walk back. Only around 1000 points (remember you'll have to unlock "iron smelting", "bessemer procedé", "advanced mettalurgics" and "mechanical engineering" first) you should have the ability to lay the foundations of the launch platform and only somewhere around 30,000 points (about two years of rw gameplay) you can hope to build your first rocket.

That would be far more realistic. On the off chance that it would shy away new players, but who cares?

Reading your post actually made me think about another game. Ever played "Master of Orion 2"? That game not only allowed you to adjust difficulty, but also adjust your tech level at the start of the game. This would be very handy for new players and experienced players alike.

Heck, this could really fix the current tech tree system to be more proper by simply providing a way to alter your tech level setting.

[NeilC]

You know what, you're absolutely right.

<rampant exaggeration>

That would be far more realistic. On the off chance that it would shy away new players, but who cares?

My suggestion was to adjust either the value of the first node or the value of science on the pad, such that you can not earn the first from the second.

I have no desire to make the first node difficult. I just don't like that it's trivial.

[Awaras]

You should not be able to earn tech from the launch pad. Certainly not a node's worth. Kerbals already had to build the launchpad. What can they learn from it?

Knowing them, they probably just found the whole KSC laying on the side of the road...

[astropapi1]

Kerbart and Awaras just made my day.