Question for my fellow kerbonauts.

[Thumper235]

I can achieve a stable orbit. I can go to the mun. I can even come back from the mun.

Problem: Not only do I fail at life, I fail at being able to control anything *besides* the three things I just mentioned.

Where you can possibly help: How can a failure like me learn to space travel better in this game?

Want to go to mun? I launch, tilt to the right press M and keep an eye on my initial orbit until it includes the mun. Once mun captures me, I slow down then land or crash or whatever it is I decide my failure will be.

TL;DR I want to learn how to space travel like a pro. Thanks.

EDIT!: Would you all mind if I use this thread to ask questions as well??

[Splendid]

Well, regarding mun landing, when I get captured by the moon gravity, I simply get Ap to be 7,000 off the moons ground, and then I timelapse to about 12k, from there, I burn towards Ap till my velocity is really small, and then I vertically descend down and burn while I do so, to maintain low speed.

[Thumper235]

I think I have gotten waaaaay ahead of myself.

When initially launching, I notice on my 'magic ball' (LoL) there are 2 sets of different markings.

Yellow Markings: I use these to increase or decrease speed. I use these markings plus Ap (apogee) and Pe (Perigee) take control and modify my orbit.

Purple Markings: What do these do? I have played around and I understand they point at the launch site (sort of). ??

EDIT: Also, Thank you for taking the time to help me.

[Phoxtane]

Purple Markings: What do these do? I have played around and I understand they point at the launch site (sort of). ??

The circle-ish one indicates a straight line from your current position to the KSC. The three-pointed cross is the opposite direction of that line.

[Hypocee]

Well, 'space travel like a pro' continues to evolve, and this game isn\'t exactly intended for that. In terms of the pure 'travel' part, Orbiter\'s likely to be a better learning tool if only because of the ability to spawn in a given situation without ten minutes of fuss. If you want combined engineering and travel, KSP\'s in a field of one, good and getting better.

My three favorite courses on orbital mechanics and spaceflight whys and wherefores are NASA\'s

http://space.au.af.mil/primer/orbital_mechanics.pdf ,

http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/basics/index.php ,

and http://history.nasa.gov/afj/loressay.htm

WX_Echo\'s KSP Orbit Mechanic is a great tool for rapidly exploring how these phenomena act in the Kerbalverse specifically.

In terms of design your fundamental tool is going to be the Tsiolkovsky equation, especially if you choose to explore Silisko Edition which incentivizes staging much more heavily.

[socket7]

Yellow Markings: I use these to increase or decrease speed. I use these markings plus Ap (apogee) and Pe (Perigee) take control and modify my orbit.

Yellow markers are your current vector of travel. Like the pink markers, the circle is prograde (forward) and the X is Retrograde (backwards) They are extremely handy for orbital adjustments as you\'ve seen, and can also tell you if you if your ship is rising or falling. You are rising when your prograde vector is in the blue part of the navball, and falling when the vector is in the brown part of the nav ball. If your vector sits on the horizon the entire time, you\'re in a circular orbit.

Hope this helps.

[Phoxtane]

You are rising when your prograde vector is in the blue part of the navball, and falling when the vector is in the brown part of the nav ball. If your vector sits on the horizon the entire time, you\'re in a circular orbit.

Also, the brown portion of the navball is the surface of the celestial body you\'re orbiting. It\'s a good idea in general to stay above it.

[OtherDalfite]

Shouldn\'t take to long to learn. It\'s only rocket science!

[Thumper235]

Ok to clarify something. I understand this is a game. Well, within the 'game' I want to have a higher level of competency. Orbiter is for a serious learning. Kerbal is more pointed towards fun, but the fundamentals of spaceflight still do apply.

Now about those purple markings. Can my kerbonauts use them in some manner to land back at <insert space center name here> ? If so, how would I learn how to make all that happen? Forget I ever mentioned the mun. Right now, I just want to be able to launch, orbit, and then land back home.

Oh, (LOOOOL!) how can i make mah orbits all squiggly like you see in the maps?

[Phoxtane]

Now about those purple markings. Can my kerbonauts use them in some manner to land back at <insert space center name here> ? If so, how would I learn how to make all that happen? Forget I ever mentioned the mun. Right now, I just want to be able to launch, orbit, and then land back home.

Sure -- when you\'re over the general area, just deorbit, and fly your rocket back to the KSC using the circle purple mark as guidance.

Oh, (LOOOOL!) how can i make mah orbits all squiggly like you see in the maps?

Shh! Not so loud!

[Hypocee]

Now about those purple markings. Can my kerbonauts use them in some manner to land back at <insert space center name here> ? If so, how would I learn how to make all that happen? Forget I ever mentioned the mun. Right now, I just want to be able to launch, orbit, and then land back home.

Not directly, and not precisely - there\'s quite a lot of both science and art in predicting your downrange distance from interface. Roughly and theoretically, yes. If you\'re in an orbit which passes over KSC (true assuming no plane change maneuvers and a remotely sane liftoff profile), you could use it to time your perikerb adjustment burn for the 'moment' when the to-KSC marker passes (slowly prograde) through brown-90 on the far side of the planet.

In practice, pending lifting flight and reentry heat, if you want a precise landing a steeper entry is preferable. You could start a less-efficient but steeper burn when the KSC marker rises to a specific angle.

Be aware the KSC markers are just a crude orientation measure dating from long before the map view existed, and have really been supplanted by the map. I\'ve considered flying some mystery orbit recoveries without the orbit projection for fun, but I imagine learning the geography in that scenario; I don\'t personally view serious use of the magic home indicator as any more fun than using the magic map view, and it provides less useful orbital data than even a crude topographical map.

[Thumper235]

Not directly, and not precisely - there\'s quite a lot of both science and art in predicting your downrange distance from interface. Roughly and theoretically, yes. If you\'re in an orbit which passes over KSC (true assuming no plane change maneuvers and a remotely sane liftoff profile), you could use it to time your perikerb adjustment burn for the 'moment' when the to-KSC marker passes (slowly prograde) through brown-90 on the far side of the planet.

In practice, pending lifting flight and reentry heat, if you want a precise landing a steeper entry is preferable. You could start a less-efficient but steeper burn when the KSC marker rises to a specific angle.

Be aware the KSC markers are just a crude orientation measure dating from long before the map view existed, and have really been supplanted by the map. I\'ve considered flying some mystery orbit recoveries without the orbit projection for fun, but I imagine learning the geography in that scenario; I don\'t personally view serious use of the magic home indicator as any more fun than using the magic map view, and it provides less useful orbital data than even a crude topographical map.

THIS. Wow. Seriously, this has to have been one of the best answers I have ever recieved. You rock!

[Ivan Ivanovich]

My usual shameless plug: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/index.php?topic=4137.0

With this out of the way, what you probably want to learn is Hohmann Transfer Orbits. Wikipedia lists a fair lot of info about it, but what you need from it is simply that you should burn at apogee and perigee to raise or lower your orbits. Burning at apogee changes perigee and vice versa. You might want to read the second part of the linked tutorial.

[Thumper235]

Well, I have to say since I have started this thread, I have improved MASSIVELY. Thanks!

About getting to the mun.

After launch and im in orbit around kerbals home planet is when I do the burn that makes my orbit big enough to 'reach' out to the moon. After I do this I usually have to wait a few complete orbits for my ship to get close enough so the mun\'s gravity can take hold.

Is there a way to try and shorten this? OR is it just kinda the nature of the Kerbal universe?

EDIT: With the orbit that goes out to the moon, I try to generally make it as wide as possible so it follows as much of the mun\'s orbit as possible.

[Hypocee]

Make the burn at the right point in your parking orbit; this general situation is what astronavigators mean when they talk about a 'window'. The Orbit Mechanic or guides can give you precise figures, but I haven\'t yet been let down by the rule of thumb that a Hohmann orbit to the Mün should lead it by about 30 degrees.

There\'s no value in widening your transfer orbit, unless you\'re orbiting opposite the Mün\'s revolution to make damned sure you hit it first try. Yes, some people have taken that approach

[Kryten]

Get into a roughly round kerbin orbit, keeping below maybe 100km, then wait until the Mun is on the horizon. Then, burn so that the apoapsis is roughly at the distance of the Mun-do it slightly below to impact or land, and above to enter orbit. This gets you to the Mun with much less fuel use, and faster.

[Thumper235]

Now if we only had things to do once we get there! I know, All in due time. But this /b/tard wants it NAO! NAAAAAAAAAAO!

[Ivan Ivanovich]

Here\'s the simple method to the 'perfect' Mun burn.

1. Get into orbit.

2. Get on the overview map (using M)

3. Look at it from 'above', so you see your orbit as a pretty good circle, along with the circle describing the Mun-orbit

4. Turn it around so the Mun is in the upper right corner of your screen.

5. Wait until your rocket is 'below' Kerbin on its orbit. Adjust the rotation of the map to keep the Mun in the upper right corner of your screen.

6. Once your rocket is 'below' Kerbin, throttle up towards the direction vector. Your orbit 'above' Kerbin will expand.

7. Keep throttling up until your apogee is just inside the Mun orbit. IIRC it\'s like 11 million meters.

8. Wait for the Mun to capture you.

[T10]

My method for reaching the Mun (borrowed and modified from a tutorial video I saw once) is similar to the ones just mentioned.

1. Launch as you normally do with your rocket, as if you are trying to acheive orbit.

2. At 50,000m turn port (towards the 270 degree on the nav ball) and line up with the horizon.

2a. Be as accurate as you can - even small errors will be huge when your orbit intersects with the Mun\'s.

3. Acheive a standard orbit around the equator of Kerbin. Don\'t worry about eccentricity, just make sure you\'re above 60,000m

4. Keep a close eye on the Mun. When it is close to the horizon behind you (about to go out of view, behind Kerbin) line up with the horizon in front of you.

5a. Once the Mun is 1/3rd into the horizon, throttle up and switch to the map.

5b. When your Apoapsis is 6,000,000m, switch out of the map and reduce throttle to a much lower level.

5c. Return to map and increase your Apoapsis to 10,000,000m

5d. Leave the map and shut down engines.

5e. From this point, alternate between brief, low powered bursts of thrust (literally tap shift and ctrl immediately afterwards) and checking the map.

5f. Repeat 5e until Apoapsis is between 11,350,000m and 11,450,000m.

6. Wait until your course has taken you close to the Mun (use a low warp as you start approaching your Apoapsis, for safety).

7a. If your course was true, you will be captured by the Mun\'s gravity - a green line intersecting the Mun means you are on a collision course.

7b. Do not slow down until you are close to the Mun. If you slow down too early, you may end up mising the Mun and being set on a course to be flung into deep space.

8. Once you are relatively close to the Mun (maybe about 20,000m) bring your ship to a halt. Face the rocket towards the retrograde (the yellow circle with a cross in it) and burn until your orbital speed is appoximately 150m/s. This is your first retrograde burn.

9. Once at 10,000m, perform a second retrograde burn. Bring speed down to 10m/s.

10a. Once you are going slowly, it\'s time to elimate any horizontal movement. Aim the rocket at the retrograde, and begin performing a series of small retrograde burns.

10b. Each time the retrograde indicator moves from the centre of the navball, shut down engines and retarget it. The aim is to keep nudging the retrograde into the clear part of the navball (skyward).

10c. Keep checking your map. If you have done this right, the two blue lines should merge into one straight line between your rocket and the Mun\'s surface. This indicates you are falling directly towards the Mun.

11. Focus on keeping speed low (between 20m/s and 100m/s, depending on height), and on keeping the retrograde in the clear centre of the navball. Don\'t be afraid to perform more course corrections to keep your ship falling straight.

12a. Below 500m, bring your speed down to less than 20m/s.

12b. Below 100m, bring your speed down to less than 5m/s

12c. Below 50m, bring your speed down as low as you can. Ideally less than 1m/s at landing.

-----------

So far, I haven\'t had any fully intact landings past this stage. But since refining my technique to the one used above, I have set the capsule down safely every time, even if the engines have snapped off.

My advice (and a question to fellow players) past this stage, is to develop and test a landing system that can survive low velocity impacts with the Mun. I suspect that a low weight, wide based rocket is best for this (my current rocket still uses it\'s fairly hefty orbital and trans-orbital stage for landing, and the SAS landing cushion crumples under the weight).

From what I can imagine, the best way to return after a Mun landing would be to simply burn towards Kerbin when it is visible from the surface. Once you escape the Mun\'s gravity well, you should find yourself pulled back home. You may need to perform retrograde burns to bring your periapsis below 60,000m, and if your return rocket is too heavy, to slow down before landing.

I hope that\'s help to some out there - I could definately have used the tips on cancelling horizontal movement above the Mun.

[Rickenbacker]

T10, you\'re basically orbiting Kerbin slightly inside the orbit of the Mun, right? Doesn\'t that take a really long time, and lots of fuel?

Me, I use the Apollo approach and the simple visual aid of the rising Mun. When in an equatorial orbit, I wait for the Mun to show up over the horizon, then burn prograde until I\'m at about 3000m/s. I then check the map to make sure my apoapsis is slightly outside the Muns orbit, adjusting as needed. This gets me to the Mun within a few hours and uses a minimum of fuel.

[T10]

I don\'t feel like it uses a lot of fuel, but that may be simply because the stage I use for accelerating to orbital speed, extending apoapsis to the Mun, decelerating once I reach the Mun, setting down on the Mun, and (if the stage would survive touchdown under my piloting,) returning to Kerbin is a relatively big stock rocket. 7 engines, 21 fuel tanks. And on top of all that is a small 1 tank 1 engine stage too. At last touchdown on the Mun, there were still 7 full tanks. I had hoped that would be enough to take me home, without even using the tiny stage on top.

I like big rockets though, makes me feel manly inside. I\'ve seen many others use much smaller vessels and I guess that\'s what makes them happy. I myself need to get used to the idea that I need a much smaller component purely for landing. The style of big rocket I like tends to crumple on landing, even at 1m/s :\'(

Timewise, it does sound longer than yours; 8 hours usually for me to reach the Mun. A while of that is spent waiting for the window to burn to the Mun. We burn for about the same speeds though, so once I\'m underway.....

Do you reach the Mun behind or in front of it? I have to admit I\'ve never tried your method....