Confusion at the Science system. What do I do?!

[TartarusMkII]

Heya,

I have been playing KSP .22 since it game out, in career mode with a handful of mods that are compatible, and linked to the tech tree.

I started the game by flying around on Kerbin, getting soil samples and goo/material readings from as many biomes as I could, and managed to get a few tiers into the tech tree. But then I was thinking, what next? On the wiki for the science system, it reads that ships bring back science on their own depending on "how far they've traveled." So I tried putting a ship into orbit, warping for a few days of time, and then bringing him back down. I got less than two points of science!

So, I figured maybe it means distance away from Kerbin? So I made a drastic orbit to throw my ship far away from Kerbin, past the Mun, and managed to land it down safely again. But even still, I got a minuscule amount of science.

Now I am stuck. I know I can travel to the moon and start getting data from various biomes on the moon, but will that run out too? I don't want to get info and samples, send them back, and then have nothing else to do afterwards.

What am I supposed to be doing? Should I not be bringing things back to Kerbin? Should I only be sending it via transmission? I am confused about it, but I read that transmitting data does not lower the amount its worth over time (by repeating the experiment)?

Can anyone give me more info as to how I am supposed to properly grow my science coffers?

Thanks!

[mmarsh]

Hey Tartarus, i'm brand new to kerbal and i also have been playing with the new science features. Here is what i've gleaned from my experiments.

1) You collect data from your "experiments" with the new science modules. (right clicking on the parts) The amount of points that your data is worth depends on what part you are using and how you transmit it back to kerbin.

2) If you save the data and don't transmit it, you will receive full point value for the data upon RECOVERING YOUR VEHICLE once you land on Kerbin. If you transmit it you will only receive a percentage of that data value, which is stated on the transmit buttons on the science parts.

3) I THINK you receive diminishing point values for repeating the same experiments, but i'm not sure on that one.

[TartarusMkII]

I sent a few missions to the Mun, which have all left the kerbonauts stranded in Mun's orbit. But anyhow, I got a whole bunch of science by beaming back information about the goo and the material bay "high above" the Mun. That allowed me to research two other things, neither of which will really help me get closer to the moon. Now I am frustrated again just as I was when I typed up the first post.

Why are such simple pieces of a rocket, even those that only serve purposes like simple metal structures to hold pieces together, so high up on the tech tree? I just imagine that the tech tree would not be nearly as odd were it not so difficult to get hundreds of science.

I guess I should elaborate some. What confuses me is this: where exactly is the science supposed to come from? I seem to have already depleted all of the science that high Mun orbit can give me, and it was so little. What am I missing?

[merlinux]

About being afraid of doing missions on the Mun and having nothing else to do afterwards trust me it wont be true. There is always something to do in this game. Always a goal to achieve. And there is a lot more science points to be grabbed in this game than what is needed to finish the tech tree. So dont be afraid. The fact that only a few parts are available at first limit your choice of destination, so get the points where you can get them. And you havent depleted all the science points from high mun orbit as you havent unlocked all the science instruments...

About transmitting, it is very very useful as of now, especially when you start going interplanetarry. You can get thousands of science points by repeating the same experience.

About the things that seem so simple and are so high up, I cant really answer you as I am no developper. But you can do without until you unlock them

[TartarusMkII]

Thanks for the input. Do you know any more about how space craft get science for how far they've traveled? I want a reason to recover these ships!

Thanks again.

[Seret]

Don't bother chasing science for distance travelled. If indeed you do get any that way it won't be much.

There are several biomes on the Mun, as well as science to be had in high and low orbits. Send some ships for high and low altitude flybys of the Mun and Minmus and you should get plenty of science. You can get a free return trajectory that makes a flyby really easy, just plan a burn that swings you out to the far side of the Mun then back to Kerbin.

By that time you should be able to throw some probes at the Mun to start coining in science from the surface. Minmus only has one biome, the Mun has several, so there's tons of science to be had. The nice part about sending probes to land is you don't need to worry about having enough smash to get back. Once you are confident you can build a lander that will be able to return you can start sending Kerbals to get even more science.

And even once you've caned Kerbin's moons for all the science you can get, there's still 13 more planets and moons to explore. Don't worry about running out of stuff to do!

[TartarusMkII]

Hah, thanks for the link, mate.

How do I make use of probes that land on the surface of the Mun? I am sorta confused by that. Is it as simple as bringing a goo container along, or something?

[Seret]

Hah, thanks for the link, mate.

How do I make use of probes that land on the surface of the Mun? I am sorta confused by that. Is it as simple as bringing a goo container along, or something?

Yep, once you've got some landing legs make a lander that has a probe core instead of a capsule. Slap on some science experiments (eg: Goo capsule, Science Bay, etc), give it an antenna, plenty of batteries, and solar panels if you've got 'em. Land on Mun, transmit much science back to Kerbin.

Each of the biggest craters on the Mun is a seperate biome, so has a fresh pool of science available.

[TartarusMkII]

Cool, thanks a lot! I'll give all these things a try. Much obliged!

[robsr3v3ng3]

Best way to get science is to do research in the different biomes on Kerbin, (on the ground and at low atmosphere, upper atmosphere, low orbit and high orbit). Then unlock a few parts and do the same for the mun (be aware the mun also has different biomes and you can get a lot of science for just collecting data at the different altitudes above each one) . If possible get solar panels early so you can then transmit the data which saves some time and gives you more science per trip. If you then unlock some more science parts go back to previous locations and use the new science part (the later parts give a lot more science than the first ones). Don't forget to get crew reports and EVA reports in these locations as they are easy to get and require no extra parts.

If you do most of the science on Kerbin and the Mun with the science parts that you have fairly early on you will have enough points to easily make something which can fly to another planet and get data there. Even if you don't land on another planet and you only have goo, crew and EVA reports available you can get a lot of science points.

It's easy to almost max out the science tree just by doing all the science on Kerbin, the Mun, Minmus, and doing a flyby of Eve and its moon.

If you need more advice check out Scott Manely's Videos (links below).

1st mission:

2nd mission:

Note, you can put research parts in action groups. This makes things a lot easier!

[TartarusMkII]

Thanks a lot, Rob! Can you tell me more about how to use them in action groups properly? I notice that I can't queue up transmissions. I can only send out one, then wait for the antenna to come back down, then send another.

Thanks!

[Seret]

Action groups are useful if you have several of the same science part, or if you don't want to have to right click on the part to activate it. I usually don't bother with more than one of the same experiment, except for fitting goo pods in pairs for balance.

To assign a part to an action group click on the action groups button in the VAB, pick what key you want to assign the action to (ie: Custom1 is the 1 key), click on the part and click on what you want it to do (eg: observe goo).

The trouble with transmitting is you have to do it over and over due to the low return from each individual transmission. You can use < and > to change time warp if you've got a slow antenna.

[Sirine]

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53514-Doing-the-math-on-science-transmissions?p=708310&viewfull=1#post708310

FYI....hope this help.

[TartarusMkII]

I sent a probe to the Mun but failed to land properly. And I ended up confusing myself anyway. I only brought a thermometer for some dumb reason, just to see if I could land the probe there at all. I've played KSP for a long while but I admit I was never too ambitious, so I'm not very experienced =P

I am a bit confused at how to land a probe on the Mun with a bunch of experiments while also keeping it sort of small and not as weighty. Otherwise I mine as well send a Kerbonaut there.

[toomuchbrew]

Check out my signature for my videos that will give you some ideas

[TartarusMkII]

Check out my signature for my videos that will give you some ideas

As of my reading, it does not appear as though you have a signature! =[

[Seret]

I sent a probe to the Mun but failed to land properly.

What went wrong? Did you run out of fuel, or did you just crash?

Keep trying, landing can be a bit tricky. You can use F5 and F9 to do a quicksave and quickload, so you can make multiple attempts while you get the hang of it. Use your navball! The general idea is:

• Start in orbit around the Mun
  
• Do a short retrograde burn to drop your trajectory to where you want to land.
  
• As you come in align your ship with the retro marker on the navball
  
• Watch your horizontal speed at the top of the navball
  
• At the right moment, fire your engine to start braking. As the retro maker on the navball moves, follow it.
  
• Kill all your horizontal speed as you come in to touch down
  

Of course, it's a bit harder than that. You'll probably need to throttle right down as your altitude drops, don't be afraid to slam it wide open and abort if you're about to touch down with more than a few m/s horizontal velocity. To kill horizontal speed you can burn towards your retro marker, vertical speed is basically controlled by throttle. There's a vertical speed indicator at the top of the screen.

[TartarusMkII]

Hi thanks again for sharing some tips! I generally already knew most of that, but I notice I have issues planning the right time to intercept with the moon so I am not traveling too fast upon entry. I end up spending too much fuel trying to control my time in Mun's SOI.

[Seret]

Are you coming barrelling in from Kerbin and trying to land straight away? Burn off a lot of your speed by going into orbit around the Mun first.

[TartarusMkII]

Hehe no, but I still have to slow myself down to be captured by the Mun. I'll watch some more videos. It's weird, I feel like I have to re-learn this stuff all the time. I've been playing KSP on and off for a long while now! Oh well. Thanks again for the help. If anyone wants to share any more tips about getting science points. I'm all ears.

[Seret]

Once you're in the Mun's SOI, place a maneuver node at the Pe and plan a burn that results in a nice circular orbit around the Mun.

[TartarusMkII]

I was confused by that when I tried it myself. If I need to burn retrograde to allow myself to be captured into a circular orbit, wouldn't I be moving the fastest at the periapsis?

[Seret]

It's most efficient to change the height of your Ap or Pe when you're at the opposite point in the orbit. When you're going to the Mun your Pe is on the far side of the Mun, and your Ap is probably on the other side of Kerbin. You want to drop your Ap so that it's around the Mun. So that means a retro burn at your Pe. You can keep doing retro burns at Ap and Pe to keep shrinking your orbit around the Mun so you start you landing run nice and low. About 10,000m is the lowest safe height to orbit the Mun.

Generally speaking to go into orbit around another body you need to lose all the speed you gained to transfer there. You need to slow down enough so you don't go shooting out the other side of the SOI.

[robsr3v3ng3]

Sorry about the very late reply.

If you put all your science parts in an action group and then run that action group just click keep on all the data you want to send, then right click and antenna and transmit it that way. Unfortunately we can't get transmitters to work by using an action group. When you reach the point of having only a couple of your science parts worth running it's best to run them all once, click keep on ones that are useless and transmit the good ones. That way when you run the tests again you can just spam click the cancel on tests which already have data, and transmit the ones you want to use. I know that sounds weird but trust me it makes things easier.

As to mun landings the best thing for it is keep trying. Make sure when you take off from Kerbin you go East to West. Get to a good orbit then use a manouver node to find a good time to do your burn. You should be able to make an intercept where you approach the mun at a very steep angle and get a fairly low periapsis. Once you've done that you can just burn to slow down at the periapsis give yourself a low orbit (less than 100km) but generally around 50km to make things really easy. Then just point prograde and slow yourself down.

[SRV Ron]

I sent a probe to the Mun but failed to land properly. And I ended up confusing myself anyway. I only brought a thermometer for some dumb reason, just to see if I could land the probe there at all. I've played KSP for a long while but I admit I was never too ambitious, so I'm not very experienced =P

I am a bit confused at how to land a probe on the Mun with a bunch of experiments while also keeping it sort of small and not as weighty. Otherwise I mine as well send a Kerbonaut there.

Do Minmus first, then Mun

The rocket used;

Later, with not much more rocket, go for Eve and Duna