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M$ "Flight" is the biggest blunder since Spore

Moach

By Moach
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Guest GroundHOG-2010

Guest GroundHOG-2010

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I just rewatched the GDC video and now im crying. thanks alot :\'(

I watched it too. Now all I have to do is play spore to see the differences.

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venku122

venku122

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I watched it too. Now all I have to do is play spore to see the differences.

Its not worth it. At all. I remember I ordered the Collector\'s edition off of amazon and I didnt have enough money for next day shipping so one of my friends bought it from target. His computer was lacking in ram so he came over to my house. First thing i tell him to do on land is 'bite the dead animal, then walk. He\'ll drag it' it never worked. THat was the first sign something was wrong :\'(

6:41 on this video to see what i\'m talking about

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8372603330420559198

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Guest GroundHOG-2010

Guest GroundHOG-2010

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Its not worth it. At all. I remember I ordered the Collector\'s edition off of amazon and I didnt have enough money for next day shipping so one of my friends bought it from target. His computer was lacking in ram so he came over to my house. First thing i tell him to do on land is 'bite the dead animal, then walk. He\'ll drag it' it never worked. THat was the first sign something was wrong :\'(

6:41 on this video to see what i\'m talking about

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8372603330420559198

Now I can see why people wanted that version of the game. Mayby someone will recreate the original spore.

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Iskierka

Iskierka

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There is a good list of ones that I could recommend. The Il-2 series is good. The latest one looks quite good but there apparently were some bugs with it.

If you are looking for a modern one, the best way to look is Lock on Modern Air Combat and the expansions.

IL-2 is good, X-plane is very good for realism but the combat support is bare-minimum. (guns and missiles work, but their effect is limited to disabling. Official statement is that it\'s a system to just put in some sort of competition, rather than to accurately represent combat) DCS is also very good for both flight and combat, though you\'re limited to just the one aircraft, and you will need to use tutorials unless you happen to fly the aircraft in question.

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Guest GroundHOG-2010

Guest GroundHOG-2010

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IL-2 is good, X-plane is very good for realism but the combat support is bare-minimum. (guns and missiles work, but their effect is limited to disabling. Official statement is that it\'s a system to just put in some sort of competition, rather than to accurately represent combat) DCS is also very good for both flight and combat, though you\'re limited to just the one aircraft, and you will need to use tutorials unless you happen to fly the aircraft in question.

The latest Expansion pack for Lock on has forwards compatablity with DCS (they are both done by eagle dynamics). I refer to Lock On as modern IL-2. And he asked for combat, not general. X-plane does the aerodynamics of the plane, something the other companys don\'t.

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Technical Ben

Technical Ben

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I find it interesting that all MS Flight discussions end up as XP-10 discussions... If MS would heed the community\'s feedback, they would probably notice their decision was NOT a popular one.

I feel bad for the developers who made the game though. It\'s not their fault, they had to follow the orders coming down from above. They probably all know how much value a strong modding community adds to any game, and were helpless to do anything about it.

Goes to show how little they actually care about you, the flightsimmer. They have destroyed the one thing that made FS the success it\'s been for 25 years in a single spurt of shameless, undeniable greed. They have also hurt an industry of payware addon developers, who will now migrate away to continue to make a living, and take all their communities with them.

It was indeed a stupid decision.

But then again, this is the same MS that was against homebrew Kinect applications, completely oblivious to the fact that those people were buying kinects too. They turned around eventually and released a Kinect SDK... So who knows?

Cheers

But with the Kinect, it shows where the problem is. Decisions made from way back in the development or investment plan. If they sell the Kinect at a loss (like most game consoles) then they cannot allow free software. As they need the software royalties to pay for the hardware. It\'s still their own fault. Look at Nintendo, they sell their hardware to make profit (AFAIK) and don\'t have the same worries as Sony and MS over excessive hardware sales eating their profit marine.

So, if Nintendo made the PS3, we would still have Linux mode. Why worry about people buying hundreds of PS3s to run free home-brew software on, when you make profit on every sale? If Nintendo made the XBox live Arcade, we would still have Indie support.

I\'m not saying Nintendo get it right, as on their machines there is neither Linux support or Indie support. But more that if some companies can get their priorities right (aim for profit on all sales) then why do others get it so wrong (try and subsidise your business)?

MS is now doing the same with 'Flight'. Instead of making a profit on every game sale, they are offering the game for free, at a MASSIVE cost to themselves. In the vain hope that content sales will give them profit elsewhere. Why do I think that\'s a massively risky and stupid thing to do, yet their CEO thinks it\'s great?! Because other games have done it? Those games ring more like a casino than a football field...

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Moach

Moach

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i find it severely dusturbing how one mans dumb ideas will outrage millions of obviusly much smarter people.... and by some reason - this guy does not get hanged in a public square anymore.... no, instead - he\'s giving out orders and superior instances of the human class are actually following them

IN MY GOVERNMENT - i shall instate the PUBLIC ENEMY LAW - a counter-loophope initiative allowing the people to decide what should be done of individuals who haven\'t quite exactly breached the law, but are invariantly held in the lowest of regards by the raging angry mobs than once toted pitchforks and torches (and for some reason, that\'s not ok anymore these days)....

so when i\'m elected governor of the earth - there\'ll be hell to pay - and we\'ll let the internets decide just how much it sould hurt!

but for now - we\'ve already got a few thousand non-buyers for them -- how\'s that working out for ya, M$? -- wanna hear the news? - WE\'RE NOT YOUR BITCH!

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Sordid

Sordid

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IN MY GOVERNMENT - i shall instate the PUBLIC ENEMY LAW - a counter-loophope initiative allowing the people to decide what should be done of individuals who haven\'t quite exactly breached the law, but are invariantly held in the lowest of regards by the raging angry mobs than once toted pitchforks and torches (and for some reason, that\'s not ok anymore these days)....

so when i\'m elected governor of the earth - there\'ll be hell to pay - and we\'ll let the internets decide just how much it sould hurt!

I assume you\'ll be exempt from this law, yes? ;P

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Moach

Moach

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well, i\'d be the governor of the world, so everybody would wanna be my friend, i expect ::)

back onto topic, kinda... i\'ve noticed that DCS A-10 Warthog is already up for grabs - and now, THAT\'s a real flight simulator! :thumbup:

you see the difference in attitude - DCS picks out one single aircraft (which happens to be the meanest machine ever to take flight) and models it with precision from gun to tails ::) -- then they attach to it a very clever highly flexible mission editor/generator - ensuring a potentially unlimited replay value

M$ gives you a 'free' simulator for which you must pay repeatedly to get additional content, none of which users can create, and guarantee it\'ll only remain interesting as long as they find it 'convenient' within their evil schemes....

they\'ve butchered a trhiving addon-centered industry - that will now most certainly move to the other simulator (XP10) and more than likely, if nothing changes - it\'ll take the throne where FSX once sat sooner or later.....

i\'ve been a working programmer for the past few years - i\'ve been a community-involved gamer for over a decade - and i must say

never in my life have i witnessed any development fault so unforgivably large

in a single, ill-conceived move they have put to waste the whole franchise -- after 25 years of proven success, a series that stood ahead of the pack as the longest-running title in PC gaming history dies an inglorious death by the filthy hands of DLC villains

the Spore debacle now seems like an understandable sequence of misled decisions, ultimately leading to a fateful demise....

this is nothing like that - there was absolutely NO EXCUSE for even conceiving such a terrible fallacy let alone deciding for it - there are no words in human speech that can fully express the sheer bulk of FAIL that we are faced upon....

i honestly believed there was nothing could be done that would surpass the Spore fiasco in decision-making ineptness -- this did it!

it shot past the line of complete failure so fast the line is now a dot... a gaffe so severe as to turn a decade-long acclaimed legacy of PC gaming into a cautionary tale of 'what not to do' has me flummoxed by seeing just the unbelievable extent management stupidity can reach without any apparent restraint nor but a sign of hesitation

mark my words - this blatant lack of regard for players dignity has brought the industry a new low -- i feel dirty sharing a profession with evildoers capable of this level of corruption....

may they rot and wither in the feaces-smeared bog of incompetence upon which they burrow!

may their failure to comply with the most basic degree of adequacy become their downtrodden pratfall into gangrenous decrepitude!

may their leprous offspring decay and wallow in the cesspoll of their inbreeders shame and disgrace!

...feel free to add - i\'m not done cursing these bastards - and very likely never will.... it also feels very therapeutic - you sould try it ::)

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Technical Ben

Technical Ben

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The thing is, it seems they only want money. Yes, they will probably make tons of it. But there are many ways to make money. Most involve hard work, and honest business. Does the fact something makes money, make it the best option? If that was so, why are there laws against so many types of 'illegal' businesses? ;)

Look at the likes of Minecraft or Steam for an example of where piracy does not seem to be a big enough problem for them to bother putting too much money or effort into fighting it. So I doubt MS excuse is their choice was to fight piracy. Both MC and Steam also benefit from masses of free user created content (mods for MC and Valve games).

As a totally unrelated but also profitable system see MMOs like WOW or EVE Online. The only good non-subscription games I can think of off the top of my head are City of Heros and Guild Wars, but I\'d be happy for pointers to others. If MS Flight followed any of the systems like that, then perhaps players could understand. The game would be aiming for profit (wages! :D ) and playability (actual gameplay ;) ).

However, they have gone for F2P system. What does that remind you of? To me it\'s either a game so rubbish, people would only play it if you gave it away (unless we are talking of a demo ;) ), or a 'con' such as 'free internet for a week only, then £100 a month after'.

I honestly find it hard to defend charging £2.50 or even only $0.50 for an in game item, when it takes all of 1 day or so to create*, and zero cost to replicate to your 100,000 customers. Your expecting $50,000 for a SINGLE GAME ITEM. I\'d love to be paid that for a part in KSP, but would I think it an honest payment?! However, selling a game for $30 you make 3 million with the same amount of customers, but this time the team has to work for those wages, not just make a single item. ;)

Lol. I think I should avoid such conversations, I get annoyed. :P

*Sorry, I\'m not talking about entire planes here, I know they take more than a day to make, but they would also cost more than $0.50! But things like weps on TF2 or 'horse armour' which sometimes have a quality less than the free mods given away here on KSP.

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Moach

Moach

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exactly the point - also with no user content, they also create a 'planned obsolescence' condition where they have full control of just when they\'l want players to grow bored and go buy their next ripoff....

it might not be blatantly illegal - but it\'s unfair trade to a non-irrelevant degree - specially so if you consider things like this:

- a market has evolved around FSX payware addons, people are making a living out of it

- M$ had no part in it - but supplied the base for this industry to develop upon

- there was fair competition within this payware market, free to anyone entering as any fair business would have it

- with new FS releases, M$ would boost this market with new possibilities, albeit rendering some items obsolete

- now, they introduce a release that renders EVERYTHING obsolete

- they also introduced themselves into the payware market, but in a condition of monopoly - forcing out all competition

this could be seen under the terms of consumer law as UNFAIR COMPETITION - they have RIGGED an accessories market into witch they have forced themselves without giving any chance of existing publishers continuing with their fair business

a textbook hostile takeover - which i believe is worth being revised as to just how much it\'s even legal

it is possible that payware publishers could take M$ to court over this -- they have been dealt an unfair hand and had the rug pulled from beneath their feet....

i don\'t expect any good to come out of it - but in a fair world, they would be obliged to publish an SDK that gave the existing industry a fighting chance

*sigh*

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Guest GroundHOG-2010

Guest GroundHOG-2010

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I am going to repeat what many people have probably said to you.

Calm Down.

Also I have the orbiter forums where your ranting open.

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Technical Ben

Technical Ben

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LOL.

Basically, it\'s not an unfair market as such. They can do what they want. Another provider is still free to take up the space they left in the market (IE X plane like you said).

It\'s their own nose they are cutting off, so it\'s only really themselves who will loose out, not the customers who shop else where. Hopefully the modders can do the same. But basically, there was no guarantee on their work previously. Like most things out of our control, we just work around the problems. :)

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venku122

venku122

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x-plane

10 isn\'t so bad, at least the demo. The graphics are far better than they used to be, and the physics are amazing.

I don\'t think its about which game is better, but about the FSX addon community being destroyed

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