Sandbox science, yet again...

[ThirdHorseman]

So I know we've had this discussion before but with the new announcement about the Science Archives I hope Squad re-thinks their decision to keep the R&D closed in Sandbox mode and allow the collection of SCIENCE in both Career and Sandbox modes.

Yes yes, I know that many people think it is stupid to collect SCIENCE in Sandbox since everything is already unlocked. There is no point to collecting SCIENCE in Sandbox, they said. But now with the Science Archives it seems there will be a point to collecting SCIENCE in Sandbox, since it can build our "library to view all the knowledge you’ve gathered for Kerbalkind".

Hope they see this and rethink their position.

And before anyone comes up with the inevitable "Just start a Career save and cheat to get all the SCIENCE you need and then play Sandbox":

1) I have a ton of mods and a ton of custom parts, and I don't enjoy the thought of going through each CFG file and manually adding them all to the tech tree

2) This is a hack, I don't see why Squad can't have the Science Archives in the Sandbox mode as part of the basic game.

[vexx32]

Moved to Suggestions and Development Discussion, marked as [suggestion].

[Psycix]

I agree.

What is a sandbox if you are limited in your possibilities?

EDIT: To the people opposing this "because it is pointless", why not let us have this instead of opposing something that does not bother you in any way?

[Kasuha]

I support that suggestion.

In the meantime, if you want sandbox with science, do this:

1/ start new career game

2/ exit to main menu

3/ locate your persistent.sfs from this game, open it in text editor, locate the following lines:

	SCENARIO
	{
		name = ResearchAndDevelopment
		scene = 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
		sci = 0

change them to:

	SCENARIO
	{
		name = ResearchAndDevelopment
		scene = 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
		[COLOR="#FF0000"]sci = 10738[/COLOR]

and save the file.

4/ Start that game again, go to tech tree and uncover all nodes

You'll get all parts, science enabled, no research done and 0 science points.

Disclaimer: works on vanilla game. Modded games may require different number of science points to uncover tech tree.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Kasuha

[ThirdHorseman]

In the meantime, if you want sandbox with science, do this:

Like I said in my post, this is a hack that I am not willing to go through. I have a TON of mods as well as a TON of my own self-welded parts. I am not going from CFG to CFG adding tech-tree info. On top of that several of the mods are not being integrated by the authors, so I'd have to re-do the CFG file changes every time there is an update. I'm not willing to go through all that.

I am not interested in Career mode, but I would love to be able to accumulate SCIENCE just to watch that little number go up...yes, even it that number is meaningless. But with the addition of the Science Archive SCIENCE now has just as much meaning in Sandbox as it does in Career.

If Career really is just a big glorified tutorial like they said it is, and Sandbox is where the meat of the game is, it doesn't make sense to actively keep these interesting gameplay mechanics out of Sandbox mode...

[Kasuha]

Like I said in my post, this is a hack that I am not willing to go through. I have a TON of mods as well as a TON of my own self-welded parts. I am not going from CFG to CFG adding tech-tree info. On top of that several of the mods are not being integrated by the authors, so I'd have to re-do the CFG file changes every time there is an update. I'm not willing to go through all that.

I am not interested in Career mode, but I would love to be able to accumulate SCIENCE just to watch that little number go up...yes, even it that number is meaningless. But with the addition of the Science Archive SCIENCE now has just as much meaning in Sandbox as it does in Career.

If Career really is just a big glorified tutorial like they said it is, and Sandbox is where the meat of the game is, it doesn't make sense to actively keep these interesting gameplay mechanics out of Sandbox mode...

Well, duh. If you're not willing to spend a few minutes on preparing a game you're going to play for hours or days, I guess you don't need it that desperately, then.

[Eric S]

Like I said in my post, this is a hack that I am not willing to go through. I have a TON of mods as well as a TON of my own self-welded parts. I am not going from CFG to CFG adding tech-tree info. On top of that several of the mods are not being integrated by the authors, so I'd have to re-do the CFG file changes every time there is an update. I'm not willing to go through all that.

Sounds like you're thinking of doing it the hard way anyway. With the right ModuleManager config, I'm pretty sure you can set it up to assign any part that isn't attached to the tech tree to whatever node you want (the first node, for example), or even override it so that all parts are on the first node, with a few lines in a single file that doesn't change when you update your mods or even add new ones. You might need the wildcard extension for Module Manager, but I'm not certain.

If Career really is just a big glorified tutorial like they said it is, and Sandbox is where the meat of the game is, it doesn't make sense to actively keep these interesting gameplay mechanics out of Sandbox mode...

They've never actually said that though. They said that the tech tree was organized as to not overload new players. That doesn't make the tech tree, let alone all of career mode, a tutorial.

Sandbox is where you play without the limitations of research and budget, and probably a few other limitations. Career mode is quite likely going to be the meat of the game, where the greatest challenge is to be found.

That said, I don't see an issue with science gathering in sandbox mode, so I'm not against your suggestion.

[TimMartland]

I think science should be in sandbox in a rudimentary form, if only as a way to 'keep score'