Edits to SCIENCE that I would love to see

[B787_300]

First off, the 1m materials bay is currently called SC-9001 Science Jr.

So given that where is the normal sized (ie 2m) version?

Second, I would love to have inline Goo containers.

I don’t like the look of them hanging off my rocket, and those of us who use mods like Deadly Reentry (DISCLAIMER I do not use that mod) could have issues and design troubles for returning the containers back to Kerbin.

Third, A special part for spacestations

The ISS does not take breaks from science, why should my station have a limited amount of points that I can get from the goo and materials bay? That being said, I would love a part that relies on being in ORBIT (true orbit, not suborbital) to generate science. I would also like this part to slowly generate science over time. This part should come in 3 sizes, a 1m, a 2m, and a 3m. The three meter I realize is odd because we don’t have 3m rocket parts, but that would be part of the challenge and there are enough mods out there that have 3m parts that it would be worth it. In addition, it would be comparable in size to Skylab. To balance this part out, it should provide a trickle of science not enough to make it worth sitting there with time warp on 100000x and getting enough science to unlock everything in a single Kerbin year. The 3m part should produce 100 Science per Kerbin year and should be 6m long. The 2m part should produce 29.6296296296 Science per year and should be 4m long. The 1m should be produce 3.7037037037 science per year and should be 2m long. (The science values are based off the VOLUME of the parts involved) The parts should also consume a fair bit of power (a couple of RTGs will not be enough). Another characteristic of this part would be the constant transmission and generation of SCIENCE, no right clicking and transmitting.

YES THIS COULD BE IMPLEMENTED WITH THE NEW TRANSMISSION INCREASING PART

Also if you are a MOD maker and use the third idea, all I ask for is a small shout out in the readme and link so I can download your mod.

TLDR: 2m Materials bay, inline goo containers, and a special station part that passively produces science

[Dun Kirk]

space station = camper

I think it'd be nice to have a 2m master science part, which contains all the science stuff.

[Pulstar]

A science lab module for space stations is coming, however it will not generate science over time as getting science or really anything for simply time-warping until you have enough of it s not something the devs want to add.

[B787_300]

Pulstar I realize that, that is why my idea produces a Trickle of science not a stream and not a flood. Plus you would have to unlock the parts which would take science and if you are using the 1m part, 3.707 science a year is practically nothing, until you make a space station that combines multiple parts then it would be worth it.

Dun Kirk, yes it is, but this gives incentives to build stations which in the current science mode is lacking, you can but what is the scientific value of doing it, nothing

[UberFuber]

Pulstar I realize that, that is why my idea produces a Trickle of science not a stream and not a flood. Plus you would have to unlock the parts which would take science and if you are using the 1m part, 3.707 science a year is practically nothing, until you make a space station that combines multiple parts then it would be worth it.

Dun Kirk, yes it is, but this gives incentives to build stations which in the current science mode is lacking, you can but what is the scientific value of doing it, nothing

Get one station up and running with the bare minimum required.

Turn timewarp to max.

Go to sleep.

Wake up and find more science than you know what to do with.

[B787_300]

Get one station up and running with the bare minimum required.

Turn timewarp to max.

Go to sleep.

Wake up and find more science than you know what to do with.

Fine then set a LARGE cap maybe 2000 for 3m and scale down for the other two by volume.

Also I think that would feel cheaty for most people, it certainly would for me, also I am proposing that they get added to the techtree in later nodes, so you have to do some science before unlocking them.

[HeadHunter67]

Science over time just isn't going to work, no matter how you do it. Either a player can time-warp his way to unlocking the whole tech tree, or you can award a "trickle" which is so insignificant as to not matter. We already have the problem of most science equipment being so far into the tech tree that it's nearly obsolete by the time you can use it.

The Science Lab in 0.23 is likely going to be a better way of doing things - it allows players to process the science collected elsewhere into a more potent form without landing, from what I gather. And there's nothing preventing a player from putting other scientific equipment on a station and gaining benefit from processing that.

I agree that inline Goo containers are a good idea, and if the 2m "Science Sr." contained a materials bay, a goo sampler and all five scientific instruments, that would be reasonable.

[knoss]

well if you had to get fresh kerbals up there to keep new ideas going to further the research in a station so you have a reason to keep going back to a station rather than just resupply fule

maybe utalize the kerbals smarts/stupidity that can modify how quickly you can gather the science form a project do get more or less efficient when you transmit

methods of transmitting the data -

antenna- -20% to amount gathered in that data due to static interference (range can also be a factor ect)

small dish 0% no modification simple video and black and white pictures

Large dish +10% wow technocolor - did it just turn green?

beyond +20 or more - holographic / virtual manipulation? ( not relly but what they can say is happening )

maybe parts that are better variants of some of the basic sciences form

goo canister or a goo vat 40% return to 60%

equipment bay 20% to Microlap 40%

it will save a lot on number of times you have to rerun experiments less clicky

[Tw1]

Get one station up and running with the bare minimum required.

Turn timewarp to max.

Go to sleep.

Wake up and find more science than you know what to do with.

Yes, that is the problem with the idea of long term trickles science. Perhaps you have to renew the science equipment after a after a certain point.

This is one of the problems with the clicking and collecting science mechanism, and why I hope we get more data based science activity, and experiments that you take a more active roll in, in the future. This would make long term expeditions, and permanent bases more fun.

In the thread about "contracts"- hopefully little activities and tasks you can do as part of your missions, perhaps boosting reputation and funding- I suggested that stations and bases could play a part:

Space tourism could also work pretty simply. If you agree to take someone somewhere, they could just appear in the crewlist. They might have a slightly different icon, and a little info to remind you that they are a paying passenger, and not part of your crew.

Then it's simple, include him in the next trip to that location, return him, and get paid.

If you don't get him to the desired destination, he will be annoyed. Bad problems for you if you kill him.

Space tourism could be great fun. If you have stations or bases, they could be requested destinations, as well as the planets and moons.

Alternately, they could request to be as far away from any establishments as possible. Or want to stay on the base/station long term.

Later in the thread, someone raised the idea that this contracts/tasks could be a means to make stations useful long term. I liked it and elaborated a bit:

I like the idea that they need to be in certain orbits, but all time based things are vulnerable to Time Warp Exploitation. I have an alternate idea, more on this further down.

I'd like to add that a station could require certain parts, as well as certain numbers of kerbals- you can't just stick a stack of hitchhiker pods in orbit, call that a 16 kerman station.

-snip-

Personally, I favour funding being allocated to you over a certain level of time, and rising and falling with your programs reputation, with some things that can all smaller cash injections. Long term research could be a way to boost your reputation, and therefore your base funding levels. This would not diminish over time- encouraging you to maintain them.

Perhaps, stations and bases capable of long term research could be a means to boost your space program's reputation, and therefore, the level of base funding.

This would have its limits, but could be a great way to make building and maintaining stations and bases an important part of the game.

[knoss]

i think i suggested this else where but

if science was staged

if working on a project it would stop when the next stage was ready and you would have to do something get more rocks or water sample add goo form a container ore use tools , put a container outside to soak up solar radiation transfer form grav environment to micro g

for the experiment to continue you must do these things if you just keep time warping it can pass a validity and the experiment can have unexpected results or become spoiled

(clone a kerbal)

(lose a scientist)

(loss of all science stored form contamination in that vessel)

a few ideas

[UberFuber]

Science over time just isn't going to work, no matter how you do it. Either a player can time-warp his way to unlocking the whole tech tree, or you can award a "trickle" which is so insignificant as to not matter. We already have the problem of most science equipment being so far into the tech tree that it's nearly obsolete by the time you can use it.

The Science Lab in 0.23 is likely going to be a better way of doing things - it allows players to process the science collected elsewhere into a more potent form without landing, from what I gather. And there's nothing preventing a player from putting other scientific equipment on a station and gaining benefit from processing that.

I agree that inline Goo containers are a good idea, and if the 2m "Science Sr." contained a materials bay, a goo sampler and all five scientific instruments, that would be reasonable.

Perhaps something like this.

Each sample from a biome has a "potential" amount of science value associated with them.

Transmission without further research gives you 10~20% of max value.

Science Bay Jr. gives you 50%

Science Bay Sr. gives you 80%

Landing gives you 100% of its value.

[RSwordsman]

On space station science, I'd suggest that designated "station modules" (ones that are designed specifically to be orbited long-term) generate a finite amount of science over time. Once this amount is spent, you have to replace the Kerbal(s) manning it with new ones fresh from the KSC. The "old" ones must be recovered on Kerbin before they can be sent back up to do more science.

^^There could be multiple sizes for science labs, maybe housing 1, 2, and 3 Kerbals for increasing science gains if they remain freshly crewed and powered.

I feel that this is a way to make station science effective, as well as necessitate crew rotation without being able to cheat it somehow by keeping the old crew in space.

Edited November 11, 2013 by RSwordsman