Feedback from a KSP Newbie [v0.22.0.351]

[Queeg]

Firstly, I'm REALLY enjoying the game... I'm completely overwhelmed, but enjoying it nether the less.

So far the sum of my ludicrously incomplete knowledge comes from

. Thank you Scott - though next time you use phrases like simple orbital mechanics, I'd like to remind you that for the rest of us "simple" and "orbital mechanics" don't belong in the same sentence.

So you can gauge my level of knowledge, I'll mention that so far I've managed to orbit both the Mun and Minmus, but not land. I struggle to land back on Kerbin anywhere except extremely flat areas but after a bit of trial and error I am at least able to return back to Kerbin after reaching either of the moons.

I've been mostly playing the Career mode so far. Primarily because the number of parts for Sandbox mode is just completely overwhelming for me right now.

I'm guessing it's been a very long time since any of you first played KSP and therefore there is SO much you guys take for granted. Certainly from reading the forums so far, the majority of suggestions and such are pretty advanced stuff from my point of view

So I figured I'd post my feedback so far, before I forget some of the stuff I struggled with here at the beginning. (or at least, seemed out of place).

Launcher

I bought the game from the KSP store and have no intention of using Steam to play. So I'm using the KSP Launcher.

• Right now, when the launcher starts the game, it doesn't set the game to be the active focus application. So when I hit [PLAY], the main KSP.exe starts, the launcher closes and the game does all it's usual "loading..." parts thing. BUT when everything is finally loaded and I click the "Start Game" option, it instead clicks through to my desktop and effectively alt-tab's out because whilst I can only see KSP on the screen, KSP isn't the current active application. I run the game in full screen mode. (btw, as someone with two monitors, a "Full Screen Windowed" mode would be really nice). Edit: already in the advanced options menu of the launcher.
  

UI

• Navigating between buildings/menus seems to me to be inconsistent. Sometimes you need to press [Esc] to select from a set of menus, sometimes you don't. Sometimes where are (menu/zone) navigation buttons to move between areas, mostly not. I can't help but feel that a lot of the navigation within game could benefit from someone rethinking it from the ground up and adding a core set of navigation buttons to all areas of the game, with some additional situational buttons that are available depending on where the player is.
  
• "Recover Vehicle". I only found out about it by sheer accident. I don't know where else it could go, but in career mode at least it seems way too useful to be hidden away. Maybe have it automatically appear when the ship lands/crashes?
  
• It would be incredibly useful if the size of parts were reflected in their icons. I'm sure the expert players know where everything is... I'm still in the "pick something up, realise it's too big/small, put it back" stage. All too often I mistake Rockomax X200-16's for FL-T200's as one example that is just the tip of a huge iceberg of adaptors, tanks, decouplers and docking ports. Maybe different coloured borders around the icons. Maybe a "S", "M", "L", "XL" mini icon in the corner of the main icon. Something to make the UI parts selection a little less daunting.
  
• Whilst I'm already finding swapping between parts tabs a little annoying, I think a few more categories would help people like myself. Something like separating Propulsion into Fuel Tanks/Others Tanks/Engines. Similarly simplify Structural and Utility a little.
  
• On a similar vain, I'd also really like to see two or three user custom tabs. Something I could drag parts I use regularly together according to my own whims. I think I've seen some youtube/twitch users with custom parts tabs like this - undoubtedly added via an addon. However as a newbie player, I can already see the advantage to including that functionality into the core UI.
  

Map Mode

• Is there any chance a legend for the various line colours could be added? I'm sure everyone who's played for a while understands the blue, yellow, dotted, purple, etc. lines. For me, trying to plot my first trip to the Mun, all those various orbital paths confused the living daylights out of me. Especially when even a tiny adjustment of a manoeuvre node can have such huge consequences.
  
• As a follow up... selecting and adjusting manoeuvre nodes when zoomed out is painful. Especially if you accidental click somewhere else on the screen and "lose" the node you were editing. Could a list of nodes be added to the map, as icons perhaps along the bottom of the screen? Such that we can just click on "node#1" to pick it up again (or center the screen on it or something). Maybe add a hotkey to tab forward and backwards between nodes even if no node is currently being edited? So that when you're zoomed out to plot a path to Eve, you can reselect that node you were trying to create?
  

Career Mode

Okay, sorry. This is where I've spend most of my time, so it's where my imagination has been most active.

• Packet Sizes, ever changing rewards, etc. have been confusing as hell. Maybe they're supposed to be. But currently I'm trying to do each "investigation & recovery" twice to maximise career points, before the diminishing returns make doing them again seem like a waste of fuel. I can see there's an element of "there's still more to learn" - but surely this sort of repetition shouldn't be an active game-play solution?
  
• Transmission penalties don't help either. Again, maybe that's the point. But 40% of a full report than won't be the same value the next time I repeat the experiment and so will yield even lower results just feels like punitive. Maybe limit it purely by electrical power instead? Especially since solar panels are so deep within the trees
  
• I was wondering if perhaps all experiments could be stored in a capsule computer rather than within each component? Maybe computer memory size could also be upgraded later? It might also simplify the "transmit" mechanics that seem to be a bit all over the place, being both on the experiments and antenna separately .
  
• It would be nice to see what career trees are further ahead. Right now, it's difficult to plan what to spend career points on without playing through once, then restarting to spend "better" the second time around.
  
• In my opinion, progress needs more limits and structure, a little more of the single player "theme park". And yes, I realise everyone who's been playing the sandbox mode forever is going to hate that idea. But right now, it feels like Career Mode lacks direction and goals... beyond unlocking parts. Even then, the ability to just head out to orbit Minmus for a (relative) huge number of points seems to offer too high a reward. Equally, performing experiments within the various biomes on Kerbin seems overly repetitive given the very low rewards.
  
• On a similar vain, perhaps unlocks should be "gated" by more than just career points. Perhaps a certain number of experiments on Kerbin would need to be completed before scientists suggest maybe we should be performing those same experiments in space? Equally perhaps we shouldn't be able to skip the Mun and Minmus before heading out to conduct experience further out? etc, etc, etc.
  
• I think it might also be helpful if there were some sort of "experiment handbook" or something. A log of past experiments and a "progress bar" of career points for each element. Right now, I've no idea if I remembered to do an EVA while in low orbit around Mun. Did I visit the highlands on Kerbin? Would going back there and repeating the experiment be worth while? I just got a brand new "2hot" thermometer, is there anywhere I should taking it, perhaps somewhere I've already been with other experiments? Whatever form it takes, I guess I'm suggesting what in effect will be a quest log.
  
• Talking of EVA... It would have been handy to know EVAs and taking samples were even possible. My first few play attempts made use of the equipment experiments only. Only watching someone else on Twitch.TV opened my eyes.
  
• I'm not entirely sure that unlocking parts is right way to progress. Career mode (so far) feels fairly flat. I don't know how to express it better than that. I know the unlocks are supposed to limit our access to the solar system, but right now earning science seems to be an all or nothing progression, rather than a gradual and ever more difficult curve of further experiments and further exploration.
  
• As much as I hate to say it, getting access to SC-9001 Science Jr so early in the game is too powerful. It's HUGE rewards compared with other equipment like the thermometer and barometer. I can't imagine being able to earn science points quickly enough without it, but I was tempted not to even equip some of the later unlocks when I realised that they gave so little science in return.
  
• Finally, the beginning... There's something very unrewarding about starting by putting a capsule on the launchpad at the very beginning in order to do an EVA and then immediately recover the vehicle. I think I'd like to start with a few more parts and make a tiny flight to the first experiment area. i.e. take the launchpad and KSC out of the equation and offer slightly higher rewards for the coastal and grassland areas. or something. I honestly don't know, but something just feels off about "not launching" in order to make progress.
  

I'm sure Career Mode will be excellent and I realise it's still in it's infancy. But I suspect when finished, the majority of newer players like me will need a lot more hand holding than the existing, expert, player base.

Hopefully my inexperience will help remind you of just how much new players DON'T know.

Keep up the good work and THANK YOU.

02/Dec Edit: Added UI feedback for part size for icons and custom user parts tabs for frequently used parts.

02/Dec Edit: "Full screen windowed mode is apparently already there in the advanced options for the launcher

Edited December 2, 2013 by Queeg

[Dun Kirk]

the game devs I guess are still in debugging mode.

I seriously don't get the logic of not having a clickable science dude who tells you random facts like "ISP = fuel efficiency" and "less is more, but not when space tape is involved"

this game needs a fact sphere.... ^ ^

[frizzank]

Also money and part cost has not been implemented. That will greatly effect the players who can cheat the tech tree by maxing it out in their first 2 launches.

[Supernovy]

A couple of these things should be changing in the next update, such as telling you what science you have already done, and being able to transfer science around. Otherwise, I think there are some bugs in the display of certain science results and throughput values. I would also, personally, put some of the blame on the lack of ingame tutorials.

Thanks for giving you feedback, though. It's good to hear what people new to the game think, given that most of the people on the forum have been playing for a long time already.

[Kegereneku]

I'm no developer but that's quite a good feedback.

You seem to know already that KSP is a game in constant development, but yes, the tech-tree will certainly change radically. Money haven't been implemented, "mission" have been mentioned.

Myself I also try to remind others that newcomer shouldn't be expected to be certified-astronaut or even know what "orbital mechanic" mean at all.

Amongst everything you said, an info-sphere, guided-progression and an interactive mission-control sound interesting.

But I won't say more, this thread shouldn't become a suggestion one.

I hope this feedback help the devs.

[allmappedout]

Really good post from a newbie, very well laid out and informative; welcome to the forums by the way! A lot of your concerns have been brought up or addressed (or plan to be, anyway!) but I tend to agree with a lot of your points.

Keep up the good testing and rocketry!

[Queeg]

A couple of these things should be changing in the next update, such as telling you what science you have already done, and being able to transfer science around.

Thanks for that. I did read most of the sticky posts and stuff before posting - but then I failed to notice the article section.

It's encouraging to know that some of my thoughts have solutions already in the pipeline. (Science Archive for example).

I posted the stuff I did as I know how locked in certain things can become. I'm sure most people don't think twice about how they interact with the game, but since I'd had issues with the "do I press [Esc] here for the menu?", "Why aren't those icons also here?", "why are there so many different styles of UI navigation?" type stuff that everyone else might take for granted, I figured I'd dive in to at least prompt the discussion/review.

Thanks for the encouragement, I'll try to post additional newbie feedback as I come across stuff.

Meanwhile, like everyone else, I'll see what the shake up of how science is handled turns out.

Again, keep up the good work and THANK YOU.

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

90% of newbie related problems should be solved when they add in-game tutorials. There are already some in the game, but many more are needed. I suspect the final 1.0 version will include all sorts of messages and help to guide you but as of now, patient my friend, lots of it.

And welcome aboard!

[nhnifong]

The launcher is unnecessary. You can just run the KSP executable.

[Sirrobert]

• Navigating between buildings/menus seems to me to be inconsistent. Sometimes you need to press [Esc] to select from a set of menus, sometimes you don't. Sometimes where are (menu/zone) navigation buttons to move between areas, mostly not. I can't help but feel that a lot of the navigation within game could benefit from someone rethinking it from the ground up and adding a core set of navigation buttons to all areas of the game, with some additional situational buttons that are available depending on where the player is.
  All buildings work by clicking, and in flight it's always escape. Seems pritty logical to me
  
• "Recover Vehicle". I only found out about it by sheer accident. I don't know where else it could go, but in career mode at least it seems way too useful to be hidden away. Maybe have it automatically appear when the ship lands/crashes?
  Yea that would be a good one
  

Map Mode

• Is there any chance a legend for the various line colours could be added? I'm sure everyone who's played for a while understands the blue, yellow, dotted, purple, etc. lines. For me, trying to plot my first trip to the Mun, all those various orbital paths confused the living daylights out of me. Especially when even a tiny adjustment of a manoeuvre node can have such huge consequences.
  Those colors are just extra. It's just one line that switches color after each SOI change
  
• As a follow up... selecting and adjusting manoeuvre nodes when zoomed out is painful. Especially if you accidental click somewhere else on the screen and "lose" the node you were editing. Could a list of nodes be added to the map, as icons perhaps along the bottom of the screen? Such that we can just click on "node#1" to pick it up again (or center the screen on it or something). Maybe add a hotkey to tab forward and backwards between nodes even if no node is currently being edited? So that when you're zoomed out to plot a path to Eve, you can reselect that node you were trying to create?
  Yea probably a good one. There are afew mods that give you that function until we get it vanilla, look them up
  

Career Mode

Okay, sorry. This is where I've spend most of my time, so it's where my imagination has been most active.

• Packet Sizes, ever changing rewards, etc. have been confusing as hell. Maybe they're supposed to be. But currently I'm trying to do each "investigation & recovery" twice to maximise career points, before the diminishing returns make doing them again seem like a waste of fuel. I can see there's an element of "there's still more to learn" - but surely this sort of repetition shouldn't be an active game-play solution?
  It's not needed at all. There is WAY more science available everywhere that a single trip is more than enough. If you want to grind out every last drop,t han you're going to get grind aspects
  
• Transmission penalties don't help either. Again, maybe that's the point. But 40% of a full report than won't be the same value the next time I repeat the experiment and so will yield even lower results just feels like punitive. Maybe limit it purely by electrical power instead? Especially since solar panels are so deep within the trees
  They are there for a reason. Devs want to reward you for brining the sample back safely, rather than just transmitting a picture off it. Right now you can still transmit over and over again to get the full science points. Next update that'll be gone to. Only a portion from transmitting, bring it back if you want the rest
  
• I was wondering if perhaps all experiments could be stored in a capsule computer rather than within each component? Maybe computer memory size could also be upgraded later? It might also simplify the "transmit" mechanics that seem to be a bit all over the place, being both on the experiments and antenna separately .
  Keeping in line with the 'bring it back if you want full science', you can't store a physical experiment on a hard drive. You'll need the experiment itself if you want all the data
  
• It would be nice to see what career trees are further ahead. Right now, it's difficult to plan what to spend career points on without playing through once, then restarting to spend "better" the second time around.
  Agree
  
• In my opinion, progress needs more limits and structure, a little more of the single player "theme park". And yes, I realise everyone who's been playing the sandbox mode forever is going to hate that idea. But right now, it feels like Career Mode lacks direction and goals... beyond unlocking parts. Even then, the ability to just head out to orbit Minmus for a (relative) huge number of points seems to offer too high a reward. Equally, performing experiments within the various biomes on Kerbin seems overly repetitive given the very low rewards.
  It's like Simcity. The only real goal is the one you make for yourself. And we'll get more off what you want anyway when the career mode progresses further
  
• On a similar vain, perhaps unlocks should be "gated" by more than just career points. Perhaps a certain number of experiments on Kerbin would need to be completed before scientists suggest maybe we should be performing those same experiments in space? Equally perhaps we shouldn't be able to skip the Mun and Minmus before heading out to conduct experience further out? etc, etc, etc.
  And why exactly would we not be allowed to skip the Mun and go straight for Eve? If you can do it, go for it
  
• I think it might also be helpful if there were some sort of "experiment handbook" or something. A log of past experiments and a "progress bar" of career points for each element. Right now, I've no idea if I remembered to do an EVA while in low orbit around Mun. Did I visit the highlands on Kerbin? Would going back there and repeating the experiment be worth while? I just got a brand new "2hot" thermometer, is there anywhere I should taking it, perhaps somewhere I've already been with other experiments? Whatever form it takes, I guess I'm suggesting what in effect will be a quest log.
  Coming next update
  
• Talking of EVA... It would have been handy to know EVAs and taking samples were even possible. My first few play attempts made use of the equipment experiments only. Only watching someone else on Twitch.TV opened my eyes.
  Click on everything that looks like a button. That's how you learn how a game works. Not by reading a manual
  
• I'm not entirely sure that unlocking parts is right way to progress. Career mode (so far) feels fairly flat. I don't know how to express it better than that. I know the unlocks are supposed to limit our access to the solar system, but right now earning science seems to be an all or nothing progression, rather than a gradual and ever more difficult curve of further experiments and further exploration.
  That'll come eventually when we get a budget and other stuf that we don't even know about yet
  
• As much as I hate to say it, getting access to SC-9001 Science Jr so early in the game is too powerful. It's HUGE rewards compared with other equipment like the thermometer and barometer. I can't imagine being able to earn science points quickly enough without it, but I was tempted not to even equip some of the later unlocks when I realised that they gave so little science in return.
  Meh, the main points come from location, not the part itself. And check out the mod Treeloader, lets you mod your own techtree
  
• Finally, the beginning... There's something very unrewarding about starting by putting a capsule on the launchpad at the very beginning in order to do an EVA and then immediately recover the vehicle. I think I'd like to start with a few more parts and make a tiny flight to the first experiment area. i.e. take the launchpad and KSC out of the equation and offer slightly higher rewards for the coastal and grassland areas. or something. I honestly don't know, but something just feels off about "not launching" in order to make progress.
  If it's unrewarding, don't do it.
  

I'm sure Career Mode will be excellent and I realise it's still in it's infancy. But I suspect when finished, the majority of newer players like me will need a lot more hand holding than the existing, expert, player base.

Hopefully my inexperience will help remind you of just how much new players DON'T know.

Keep up the good work and THANK YOU.

My replys in red. Most of the confusion will be fixed eventually when we squad expands the tuturials

PS: what launcher?

[Queeg]

The launcher is unnecessary. You can just run the KSP executable.

Yes, but the launcher also includes the news and auto-update functions.

If it were entirely redundant I wouldn't have mentioned it.

[Queeg]

It's been a little while and I'll be honest, I'm not really much further along than when I originally posted.

Thanks to a helpful post on the forums, I'm a little more aware of details for docking in orbit.

However, for the most part, I'm awaiting 0.23 before I throw much more time into the game right now. Most of my concerns were about Career mode and it's clear that 0.23 will be revamping the whole thing - so I'm awaiting that.

However, a couple of other bits of feedback, based on my game time so far....

UI

• It would be incredibly useful if the size of parts were reflected in their icons. I'm sure the expert players know where everything is... I'm still in the "pick something up, realise it's too big/small, put it back" stage. All too often I mistake Rockomax X200-16's for FL-T200's as one example that is just the tip of a huge iceberg of adaptors, tanks, decouplers and docking ports. Maybe different coloured borders around the icons. Maybe a "S", "M", "L", "XL" mini icon in the corner of the main icon. Something to make the UI parts selection a little less daunting.
  
• Whilst I'm already finding swapping between parts tabs a little annoying, I think a few more categories would help people like myself. Something like separating Propulsion into Fuel Tanks/Others Tanks/Engines. Similarly simplify Structural and Utility a little.
  
• On a similar vain, I'd also really like to see two or three user custom tabs. Something I could drag parts I use regularly together according to my own whims. I think I've seen some youtube/twitch users with custom parts tabs like this - undoubtedly added via an addon. However as a newbie player, I can already see the advantage to including that functionality into the core UI.
  

Again, I'm sure the more experienced players wouldn't see why I'm having problems. But I am. If my feedback can make things better/easier for future newbie players like myself - then that seems to be kind of the point of this sub-forum.

Keep up the good work and THANK YOU.

[Kegereneku]

Actually many of us think the VAB User-Interface is getting old.

It would be incredibly useful if the size of parts were reflected in their icons. I'm sure the expert players know where everything is... I'm still in the "pick something up, realise it's too big/small, put it back" stage. All too often I mistake Rockomax X200-16's for FL-T200's as one example that is just the tip of a huge iceberg of adaptors, tanks, decouplers and docking ports. Maybe different coloured borders around the icons. Maybe a "S", "M", "L", "XL" mini icon in the corner of the main icon. Something to make the UI parts selection a little less daunting.

I support this point or an equivalent : splitting category by sizes. Putting together liquid-engine, putting monopropellant tank with "Control/RCS" just like the Xenon-Tank is with the Ion-thruster.

[regex]

• It would be incredibly useful if the size of parts were reflected in their icons. I'm sure the expert players know where everything is... I'm still in the "pick something up, realise it's too big/small, put it back" stage. All too often I mistake Rockomax X200-16's for FL-T200's as one example that is just the tip of a huge iceberg of adaptors, tanks, decouplers and docking ports. Maybe different coloured borders around the icons. Maybe a "S", "M", "L", "XL" mini icon in the corner of the main icon. Something to make the UI parts selection a little less daunting.
  
• Whilst I'm already finding swapping between parts tabs a little annoying, I think a few more categories would help people like myself. Something like separating Propulsion into Fuel Tanks/Others Tanks/Engines. Similarly simplify Structural and Utility a little.
  
• On a similar vain, I'd also really like to see two or three user custom tabs. Something I could drag parts I use regularly together according to my own whims. I think I've seen some youtube/twitch users with custom parts tabs like this - undoubtedly added via an addon. However as a newbie player, I can already see the advantage to including that functionality into the core UI.
  

This is good stuff, even for those of us who've been playing awhile.

Also, it's "vein", not "vain".

[vexx32]

You mentioned a fullscreen-windowed mode, my friend. The launcher has an option for this. If you click into the Settings menu on the launcher (the cog button near the Update and Play buttons), and then choose the Advanced section, you'll find an option for "Run in frameless window (fake full screen)", which will do precisely what you want

(Steam users can accomplish the same by opening the game properties and adding the launch option -popupwindow)

[Queeg]

Also, it's "vein", not "vain".

If you knew how many times I failed my English language exams (I'm british) - you'd be amazed I spelt anything right.

You mentioned a fullscreen-windowed mode, my friend. The launcher has an option for this. If you click into the Settings menu on the launcher (the cog button near the Update and Play buttons), and then choose the Advanced section, you'll find an option for "Run in frameless window (fake full screen)", which will do precisely what you want

Ah ha... This is excellent. Thank you.

New suggestion: Move "Run in frameless window" to the display options.