To Squad... Thanks for your openness.

[Bothersome]

I'm not sure if this thread should go here so Moderators should move it necessary.

First I'd like to say thanks to Squad for their openness of information about their development of KSP. I feel Squad is doing the right thing with their policies of asking the fan base what they'd like to see in future development and actually trying to implement it. Even though we sometimes demand more of them than what's feasible. They are still doing a fantastic job. We fans tend to push a little hard and harsh sometimes but it's only because we care.

Now I would like to point Squad to what's going on in a similar game that just got release. I'm also a fan of the X3 series from Egosoft. I've pretty much played the X3 series up one side and down the other. Modded them this way and that. Great games.

Recently Egosoft release their new game X-Rebirth, and it was/is a disaster. Mainly because of Egosoft trying to dump their long PC fan base for the console markets. I would urge Squad take a couple of hours and review the goings on as to what kind of damage control Egosoft is now going through because of a series of "bad moves" on management's part at Egosoft. It could be a very good thing to know when making direction decisions at Squad.

Egosoft had a very strong (I dare say stronger than what Squad has) base of adamant fans. It is just amazing at how just a few bad moves, all the while hiding behind NDAs and very controlled press releases have turned Egosoft into a -- well, I'd best not try to put it into words here.

Anyway, take a look into it, and please Squad, don't try to do what they did. It won't work.

[Deadweasel]

KSP won't work on consoles, period.

Between the inflexible hardware platform and limited control capabilities (how many commands possible in KSP vs how many buttons on those controllers again?) it's unlikely our beloved game will ever be sullied by console fans more obsessed with "graphics" than actual playability.

[42undead2]

This isn't about KSP coming to consoles. This is about how open Squad is, and the example in the OP was just that, an example. It could be anything, like charge $29.99 for the next updates, or force you to have a K+ account. *grumble*

I love Squad for their openness. It makes for great games as-well.

[Monger]

Well, this will quickly go off-Topic, but regarding Egosoft: it's not like they did just a minor mistake, and suddenly everyone considers them as evil.

They achieved to maintain a very loyal fanbase over the years, but totally failed to open up to new players. Also, quality and usability were always big issues, with every single major release. X2 and X3 were horribly flawed at the beginning. So it's not like they suddenly decided to jump to consoles, and failed horribly. They were not particularly successful on the PC market, either.

So, lessons to be learned from this are: don't forget your most loyal fans, but don't ignore new customers, either. Never release a game with bad quality - not only regarding bugs, but also UI design and gameplay. And: don't enter markets you don't understand.

[Deadweasel]

This isn't about KSP coming to consoles. This is about how open Squad is, and the example in the OP was just that, an example. It could be anything, like charge $29.99 for the next updates, or force you to have a K+ account. *grumble*

I love Squad for their openness. It makes for great games as-well.

LOL fair enough!

To your point, though, I doubt very much they will do an about-face with their pricing, or jump into that social network crap. Yes, SQUAD is at-heart a marketing company, but they are not in that kind of networking business. Besides, they already have an extremely successful marketing tool in their hands with KSP, these forums and the countless videos being produced by successful and prominent YouTube channel owners.

I agree 100% with your sentiment, all around. However, given the backlash they can readily observe from other companies pulling d**k moves with their fans (I'm looking at YOU, EA), I'm pretty confident they'll consciously keep themselves well away from committing those huge mis-steps.

[1D-1()T]

This isn't about KSP coming to consoles. This is about how open Squad is, and the example in the OP was just that, an example. It could be anything, like charge $29.99 for the next updates, or force you to have a K+ account. *grumble*

I love Squad for their openness. It makes for great games as-well.

Hmm, I know what you're saying, but K+ would actually be kinda kool:sticktongue:

But, more on topic, I doubt Squad could screw up KSP if they tried. Unless they sold out like Ace of Spades did. Which they wouldn't. Yeah, Squad is cool.

[Bothersome]

To me, I think what hurts the most is how they misled the public into believing that X-Rebirth was going to be THE-NEXT-BIG-THING and very similar game play to the X3 series. When in fact, it was/is far from what we were led to believe. It's not that they wanted to get into console games, it's that they wanted their PC fan base to "pay the costs" of the crossover. Sell a bunch of copies of a promised game that was nothing like it was being promised. You also should know it was 7 years in the making. Fans waiting and trying to stay faithful to Egosoft for 7 years of a great finger-in-your-face kind of game. Then outright lying and hinding behind NDAs and selected press releases to keep up the hype. The fans fell for it. Hook, line, and sinker. And now look at the damage control Egosoft is trying to put out. At this point, it might be better to just patch it a couple of times and bow out (keeping the money of course).

Point is, we really don't want Squad making any kind of similar mistakes. Keeping the fan base posted as to the REAL direction of the product has got to be a good thing. Egosoft decided to go the other way and look where they are now. There is so much potential with KSP. It is the very reason you have a strong fan base for it. Sure it's an early release and has a few bugs, but that's OK as long as we're honest about it. We know Squad isn't perfect, we don't expect them to be.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, we need to give thanks where it is due. So, thanks Squad for including us in your road map.

[Deadweasel]

To me, I think what hurts the most is how they misled the public into believing that X-Rebirth was going to be THE-NEXT-BIG-THING and very similar game play to the X3 series. When in fact, it was/is far from what we were led to believe. It's not that they wanted to get into console games, it's that they wanted their PC fan base to "pay the costs" of the crossover. Sell a bunch of copies of a promised game that was nothing like it was being promised. You also should know it was 7 years in the making. Fans waiting and trying to stay faithful to Egosoft for 7 years of a great finger-in-your-face kind of game. Then outright lying and hinding behind NDAs and selected press releases to keep up the hype. The fans fell for it. Hook, line, and sinker. And now look at the damage control Egosoft is trying to put out. At this point, it might be better to just patch it a couple of times and bow out (keeping the money of course).

Point is, we really don't want Squad making any kind of similar mistakes. Keeping the fan base posted as to the REAL direction of the product has got to be a good thing. Egosoft decided to go the other way and look where they are now. There is so much potential with KSP. It is the very reason you have a strong fan base for it. Sure it's an early release and has a few bugs, but that's OK as long as we're honest about it. We know Squad isn't perfect, we don't expect them to be.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, we need to give thanks where it is due. So, thanks Squad for including us in your road map.

Yes, exactly, and this is why SQUAD will most likely not fall into the trap, because they aren't mainly about making their living from games alone. The X series is a blatant example of a game company beginning to fade into irrelevance, and turning to (badly out-of-touch) marketing consultants to tell them how to drum up interest and milk the fans for that quick surge of funding. Know where else this happened?

When a game company gets too big for its britches, it becomes more corporation focused on profit, than game company that is in touch with its fanbase and knows its success comes from appealing to their dreams, not distracting them with marketing and silencing them with NDAs. Case-in-point example of a company doing this right, time and again:

[vetrox]

Yet somehow call of duty and battlefield are still brining in the bucks after releasing what is essentially the same game over and over with dlc already prepared for sale before the games release along with optional premium accounts!

Unfortunatley this is the way of things. The bigger a company gets the more it is expected to make money. Game companies cant just make a game and hope to be rich any more. Its just like selling consumer electronics. The product itself doesnt have much profit margin, but the extras bring in the wedge

[Deadweasel]

Yet somehow call of duty and battlefield are still brining in the bucks after releasing what is essentially the same game over and over with dlc already prepared for sale before the games release along with optional premium accounts!

Unfortunatley this is the way of things. The bigger a company gets the more it is expected to make money. Game companies cant just make a game and hope to be rich any more. Its just like selling consumer electronics. The product itself doesnt have much profit margin, but the extras bring in the wedge

Say that to Notch.

EA and Activision are simply coasting on properties they had nothing to do with developing, and are just milking the cows for all their worth. It really does say something to the credit of the original developers of those games that fans are willing to be soaked for the cost of a whole new game (plus DLC) that add very little to the experience every year, but where are those original developers now? They sold out to the publishers and are getting next to nothing, while their labor is making the parent company insanely rich.

I think SQUAD are smart to keep this to themselves, and allow word-of-mouth (and Steam) to do the advertising for them. The fans will roll in on their own, and so will the money.

Of course, I guess we'll all see how well our faith in the company and its property are placed if there is ever a Kerbal Space Program 2, eh? Hehehe

[Scotius]

'Tis a fine line - between giving fans the finger (EA), or catering to their every whim (Minecraft) Hopefully Harvester & Co. will be able to navigate this line. We will be here to help if they ever stumble