Unnecessary travels to biomes on Kerbin?

[The Destroyer]

First off- batteries are unneccary for a mun return. Engines generate electricity, and assuming you don't use your SAS and gimbal wheels a lot, you can do a fine Mun landing.

Better yet, go for the easier one, Minmus.

If you get batteries, then strap a ton on, and you will have way more than you need.

[User Unrelated]

I think you might just need to develop a better science flow to optimize your unlocked parts.

It took me only 3 flights to unlock the solar panels, so that just makes everything really easy after that.

first flight was to kerbin orbit and back

second flight was to munar orbit and back with a bunch of goo pods

3rd flight was to minimus orbit and back with a bunch of goo pods

each time that I returned, I got out, took a surface sample, got back in the capsule to store it, got out and took another surface sample, and an EVA report

then I recovered the kerbalnaught on his own, and then the capsule seperately, that way I got 2 seperate EVA reports and surface samples.

I never even transmitted anything but crew reports. (I'm playing this career much more scientifically, instead of last time where I just spammed transmissions)

I recently restarted my career mode (yesterday) to incorporate some mods that got updated

and I learned the first time: go for the solar panels first time, every time.

both of those moon missions were completed mostly without SAS of any kind, because I underestimated how many batteries I'd need... and I only had one of the tiny engines that doesn't create electricity on my last stage. It's possible, but pretty frustrating.

backwards quoting

You have to take some risks though You can never really be sure if your kerbals are safe just like in the real world space program. Sometimes you just have to take some big risks especially early in a space program.

My last minimus mission last night (to get the remaining science to unlock solar panels) was HAIR SPLITTING.

It was SO CLOSE. I was completing my return burn after exiting minimus' SOI, and I DIDN'T have enough fuel to get into atmosphere! (uh oh)... but good thing I've been practicing moon return gravity braking, because the little kick that minimus gave me on it's way past was just enough to drop my periapsis to 20,000m, and I came in for a flawless aerobraking and landing.

The whole time I was thinking "wow, it's really obnoxious how intense this is right now"

Edited November 21, 2013 by User Unrelated

[boxman]

@EasyAce

You can get alot more science if you do science while in orbit around kerbin over different biomes. You would of course either need more than one goo container or a engine to recharge batteries so you can send all that data back. I personally just added a bunch of goo containers and did science/eva above each biome and then stored them for later recovery, which gave me quite a bit of science. After just a few such missions I had enough science for decouplers, which is all you should really need to get to the mun and back with very little problems. Just make sure you aerobrake when you come back to kerbin and you should have more than enough fuel even with a small craft.

You have to take some risks though You can never really be sure if your kerbals are safe just like in the real world space program. Sometimes you just have to take some big risks especially early in a space program.

Edited November 21, 2013 by boxman

[gtmattz]

1st mission: pod on launchpad, crew report, Eva report while on ladder then store data, drop off ladder get Eva report and sample from pad, store that, run down to Tue grass and get another Eva report and sample, board and recover.

2nd mission: multi stage rocketwith 2 goo pods... orbit, set up free return mun encounter, gather Eva reports at low and high kerbin orbit and low and high mun orbit, sample goo at low and high mun orbit. Even if you run out of power, since you are on a free return you are coming home no matter what. Goo samples in mun soi for more points. Also make sure to get Eva reports over the various biomes you are over while in the lower orbits.

if I am not mistaken this should net enough science to unlock the first solar panel, in 2 missions.

Edited November 21, 2013 by gtmattz

[SpaceSphereOfDeath]

As other people have said, go to the Mün, Minmus, even Duna! (Or eve (or Jool (or eeloo(or dres(or Moho))))) and do science there!

[4nxs]

I like the sound of projects that require you to test your parts (spacesuit, parachute, SRB) on Kerbin before you can use them on a rocket. I mean, perhaps this could give you the data you see when you hover over a part in the VAB.

[FITorion]

currently you can spam transmissions 10... 20 times for no data loss. However you will not be able to do that in .23

[Rainbow-Dashie]

this is the reason i never traveled to any biomes of Kerbin, it's to boring Sure some of the first sub-orbital flights happened to land in a new biome, but i never went for them on purpose.

Same for planets, I'll land on the equator, and maybe on the poles, and thats it. I did flybys of the Mun and Minmus (before i got batteries i might add , got a nice slingshot off Minmus that put me right in Kerbin's atmosphere )

[thereaverofdarkness]

One point I can make is that you don't need all of the science points that are available to you. Make some trips to biomes if you have to, to get the goo canister. Take the goo to orbit, swing around the Mün and Minmus, and do some orbital research there. Then make a trip with the Science Jr. canister--by this point, if you have been meticulous on each trip, you should have enough research to unlock batteries and possibly even solar panels. Now it's time to land on the Mün or Minmus. You might even be able to knock out both with one ship. With just the goo canisters, Science Jr., and a high-stupidity Kerbal you don't mind stranding, you can gather enough science to unlock several new parts. Now make a trip to Duna -or- Eve. Whatever you bring, do your science and unlock more stuff. If you get new equipment, take it to the other planet this time. You can unlock everything without going very far away from Kerbin, without even taking all of the equipment to all of the places.

[iMAniaC]

A friend showed me this game last week-end and I bought it right away and got instantly hooked on it. As such, I'm a real newbie at the game, but what I lack in experience, I'll make up for in inexperience: These thoughts are what I would like to give feedback about after a genuine first impression of the game as played by a complete newbie who entered Career mode right away. I'm only going to mention my thoughts about science and biomes, though, my other thoughts have been mentioned by other people before (I did a search of the forum before I started writing this).

The first thing I did was build a rocket and launch it. It failed miserably because I built it from the ground up and my stages got messed up, but that's okay (because I'm assuming the tutorial is going to get implemented optionally into Career mode at some later point anyway). Miraculously, the pilot survived, so after having crashed my first rocket, I got just enough science to get the Stack Decoupler. Now I could build a rocket that would actually reach orbit! Cool! I also got Goo which I could bring with me to experiment on (although I didn't understand at that point that I should right-click it, but again, that's okay). Then I reached sub-orbit and finally orbit and got science points from that, so I could get more tech. I didn't feel ready to go to Mun yet, but I couldn't figure out how to get more science points either, so I checked the wiki and found out about the right-clicking, so I started grinding science that way, right-clicking at various heights and various biomes. Eventually, I unlocked aerodynamics and wanted to build a plane. I tried and failed (several times) because I didn't have landing gear, but I also soon realized that this way of playing the game, building new stuff and experimenting with it, wasn't going to get me further in the tech tree. A few days later, I realized that I had enjoyed my misconception of how the tech tree worked more than I enjoy the actual workings of the tech tree. So I wanted to provide that particular feedback, because I think this game can be a huge success and I want the developers to see all sorts of feedback, so that they have the best empiric basis on which to finish their kick-ass game

My misconception of the tech tree (which I enjoyed more than the actual tech tree) was that there was slightly more causality to it. I appreciate the freedom the players have to choose what tech path to go down, but there are some choices that don't really make much sense to me. Like soaring through empty space (potentially) giving Aerodynamics. It's also kind of immersion-breaking to me that I have to go with a rocket to the north pole to get a sample from there, but at the same time, I'm able to retrieve the rocket from anywhere around the planet with a simple click. The guys who (presumably) are able to go anywhere on the planet to retrieve rockets, however, are not able to take samples from that place... I think it would be fun if specific goals (or one of several alternate goals and/or combinations of goals) resulted in specific tech being unlocked. For instance, Basic Rocketry could be unlocked by launching a rocket. The radial decoupler could be unlocked by launching a rocket and using the stack decoupler. Aerodynamics could be unlocked by launching a rocket with the Winglet or Aerodynamic nose cone attached. That kind of stuff. Also, of course, going places would unlock tech. Orbit around Kerbin, orbit around Mun, landing on Mun etc, could also unlock tech. Finally, the Goo and Science bays could of course also unlock tech. This also ties in with some of the ideas presented in the OP. Of course, finding the right balance between causality and total freedom to choose tech is a delicate exercise which I'm sure any suggestion doesn't hit on the first try.

Another advantage to implementing slightly more causality, is that a player isn't penalized or rewarded for choosing a specific tech path. Not choosing the Science bay or Thermometer is kind of a huge disadvantage when everything revolves around science points. I've read other posts on the forum saying it was too easy to get all of the tech, and that could also be remedied by having to go through several causally connected stages instead of staging one ultimate mission that would give the rest of the tech tree (although with careful planning, I'm certain that would always be possible - but not as a first-time player). Also, with the implementation of funds/money, it would be possible to re-introduce the gameplay factor of having to choose which tech to spend resources on instead of getting everything for free (although that factor does not truly go away as the type of missions you decide to do would determine the type of tech you get in return, anyway). Additionally, by not requiring the player to meet all the goals for a tech, a player wouldn't be forced to do missions he/she wouldn't find fun. Finally, having specific prerequisites for unlocking tech and knowing those prerequisites before unlocking them would give some sense of direction for new players. 'Oh, I am ready to go to Mun, because that's what the next tech says'. Of course, the requirement could be worded more subtly, for example for Aerodynamics: 'Our engineers think that the winglet has exciting properties and would like to get more data on its interaction with the atmosphere'. 'Hmm, I guess I should build a plane, then'.

Also, I think primitive wheels could be available from the start so that you can build horizontal rockets and rocket-driven planes without landing gear (although they might break during take-off, but that's okay, because that could unlock the landing gear).

That's my two cents, based on the first impressions by a complete newbie. I'm sorry about the length; I'm not very good at writing concisely.

Edited November 22, 2013 by iMAniaC

[jsfalconero]

Welcome to KSP then iMA! May all your launches begin and end with fiery explosions.

Personally I'm looking forward to how they will refine the tech tree. The good news is that as it stands the tech tree may need a lot of improvement but it's going to get them too. I like your thoughts on it and I certianly hope the Devs keep them in mind. I too can't hardly wait until we get 'missions' to run, "We choose to go to Minimus in this decade and to do the other things, not because we want cheesecake (Ed. Note: it is heavily implied that Kerbals initially believed Minimus to be made of a sugary confection) but because it is hard!"

The game's certianly come a long way since I started playing (around 0.18), and even longer before then. As you noted there will be several game changing additions as they improve career mode -money, missions, constructible/destructible buildings (I'm hoping that goes for the second space center and the island runway), possibly the addition of teloscopy. A LOT of fun stuff is coming down the pipeline, so you picked a fun time to join.

Now get out there and blow some stuff up... I mean, launch safely and conduct all your missions in a professional manner

Edited November 22, 2013 by jsfalconero
Spelling and Grammar, I are good at theem.

[rosenkranz]

For my first Mun flyby I made a rather kerbal command section which consisted of a pod, a fuel tank, engine and 6 trusses coming off the tank ending in 6 material bays with 6 goo canisters. Add parachutes and what not and you're good to go. Build up the rest of the rocket to about 5500-6000 dV go to the moon. Don't even worry about transmitting.

Make the first moon shot a free return. Once you're in the SOI, do all the experiments, get the crew report and eva report and go home. Bada Boom, SCIENCE! Should easily be 200 or so.

Do it again but make it a close pass to get the near space science. Once you're within 60km of the Mun, do the experiments and go home.

You can do the same for Minmus but make sure you've got the batteries for it. It's a 4+ day trip. You'll have to get a bit closer than 60km for the near space science for Minmus.

Just those 4 missions will likely net you more science that you can get from all of Kerbin's biomes combined.

[thereaverofdarkness]

Welcome, iMAniaC! It's really neat to read about what this game is like to a new player. I started back before the current graphics set, with no VAB and with the original Mk-1 Command Pod.

I agree with much of what you have said about the research tree. I also think it would be great if there were a research tutorial to help players get started with their research. On my first career game, I scored 5 points for recovering a craft that almost made it to orbit, then got the goo canister and used that for all further research. I think I was using goo, science jr., thermometer, and barometer by the time I discovered crew and EVA reports, and I still didn't realize at that point that there was research to be done simply by recovering craft that had gone somewhere.