[Discussion] Science and Technology

[Mars90000000]

This is both a suggesting and a discussion thread.

Too-Long-Didn't-Read: Current science tree be split up in two. One tree (Science tree?) for unlocking new types (categories, such as engines/fuel tanks/wings/etc.) and another tree (Technology tree?) for unlocking new and improved parts within a category already unlocked.

Too-Long-And-Read-Because-You're-Awesome-And-I'm-Awesome-And-We're-All-Awesome:

The current career mode allows you to perform experiments tasks in mission flights to receive science points which are then used to unlock parts. All available parts can be unlocked using these points. While more and more new parts will be added to the game, it might get hard to incorporate those parts into the current tree. Also, the first few mission with less parts available make it slow to get science points, while once we have more parts available, and able to do longer mission, a lot of points can be gotten in a single trip.

I know the current career tree and science point system is far from final, but I suggest decoupling the fact that we unlock a new part, and the fact that we unlock a better part.

Let me explain...

There are different fuel tanks varying in capacity. Similarly, there are different engines, varying in thrust force. Similar story with parachutes, wings, solar panels, decouplers, and so on. While all of them, individually, are new parts, within the same category (fuel tanks, engines, parachutes, etc...), they are upgrades. In the current tree, they are unlocked as the tree evolves.

I suggest having one tree for science (discovery), where, we will be able to unlock new categories of parts. Keeping in mind that at the beginning of the career mode, we would only have engines and fuel tanks available and only one kind of each. As the "Science" tree evolves, we would unlock parachutes (after we're able to land without one), and landing legs, and wings, and so on. But as we unlock these categories, we would only unlock one basic part of it.

Then, there will be a "Technology" tree, which will unable us to unlock more sophisticated parts of the same category.

This will make it easier for developers to add new parts. If there is a new type of wing or engine, it can be added in the technology tree, somewhere between or after, the parts already there. If it's an altogether new type of piece, it can be added to the science tree.

Technology points can be received by doing further tasks of the same type. So for someone who launches a rocket and lands it on Kerbin for the first time in the career mode, he would get Science points for that. Then, for every landing he does on Kerbin afterwards (land on pole/land somewhere else), he would get technology points. The science points can be used to unlock a new part category, while the technology points can be used to unlock better parts of a category that has already been unlocked. The more times you do the same action (landing on Kerbin), the less technology points you get, and eventually get 0 for that specific action. This brings in the monetary aspect of this...

So, as there is mention of having a monetary aspect to the career mode. It can be that money can be incorporated into it in some sort of technology research aspect. For example, you hire technicians that give you say 10 technology points per day, at the cost of 100 KSP coins per hour? Something of that sort to go along with the tree. So if you land too much, you won't get tech points for that anymore, but you could get more points by hiring a technician. Or you could do some other task, get tech points for that, until you get no more there either. And so on.

Thoughts?

Edited November 24, 2013 by Mars90000000

[Luis]

I don't really understand which problem you're trying to solve. The existing system generally already gives you the basic version of a new part before you unlock the advanced versions. What do you gain by separating them into different trees? I'm not sure there are enough categories of parts to warrant their own tree, and likewise fuel lines and struts only exist as a single version. Also, explicitly rewarding you for doing the same thing over and over seems to encourage grinding, which nobody likes.

[TimMartland]

I think that this is a good idea, but could be improved. I think you could have the stock science tree as well as a new Technology/Engineering tree. The science tree functions the same, but the Engineering tree lets you unlock better versions of existing parts (at an increased price). EG an improved engine may have a better thrust, but maybe a slightly lower ISP and an increased cost.

[Mars90000000]

I don't really understand which problem you're trying to solve. The existing system generally already gives you the basic version of a new part before you unlock the advanced versions. What do you gain by separating them into different trees? I'm not sure there are enough categories of parts to warrant their own tree, and likewise fuel lines and struts only exist as a single version. Also, explicitly rewarding you for doing the same thing over and over seems to encourage grinding, which nobody likes.

Right now, there is no problem. because there aren't TOO many parts. However, with further alpha versions and eventual beta and 1.0 versions, there will be new parts and new categories (at least, I hope there are...). Then, as the current tree becomes a forest, it will be harder to manage. If anything, it will become too cumbersome. Finding the part you need in the tree would also become hard. Unless each tree level unlocks like 20+ parts, which I think is not good either. You want to gradually unlock new and better parts so you're used to using all of them. If I unlock 20 parts in a level, I know i'll only use 5 or 6 of them, and that would be sufficient to move forward. By having 2 or 3 parts unlocked, you know you'll need to use all of them to move further.

So this allows you to unlock a few parts at a time, while at the same time, keeping the parts organized. You can further add other levels of difficulty in the career mode by having something like, sections of the Science tree. So in order to advance to the next section, you need to have all the categories already unlocked, to at least level 3, which you would have to do using technology points.

This suggesting is an attempt to make the current tree simple, now, while we have a small tree, instead of running in problems when the tree becomes the Amazon forest...

Also, explicitly rewarding you for doing the same thing over and over seems to encourage grinding, which nobody likes.

This would of course have a limit. First time to succeed a task, you get, let's say 10 points, next time 5, the next 2, then 1, then 0. So you can't get points for the same task for having done it more than 5 times. After that, if you need technology points to further improve your parts, you would have to do some other task, or hire a technician.

Also, it does take a few number of attempts to master a particular move, such as landing, but once you have it mastered, then you're fine. So this will allow you to attempt the same task a few times, to master it, while still getting some points, but not so much that you keep doing it forever. Then you can move to practicing something else. Docking, or using Nodes, or some other task.

Hope that helps in understanding what I was trying to suggest!