[TechTree] [0.23.5] Ackander's Vertical Tech Tree - Release v1.16 - May 13, 2014

[cziken20]

Will noy-integrated mods work?

[Ackander]

Will noy-integrated mods work?

I am sorry. I tried to figure it out, but I do not know what NOY is.. so what is it and I will let you know if it will work.

[Lendsil]

I am sorry. I tried to figure it out, but I do not know what NOY is.. so what is it and I will let you know if it will work.

Perhaps they meant 'non-integrated mods'?

[fronbow]

I'm considering having a look at how this could be done in a .NET application, mainly aimed at users, but possibly with extensions that help you develop the tree. I can't promise anything, but I might have a look at some ideas later tonight. Would you be interested in something like that?

I'm already writing something like this in c# (while I get my head around the foibles of c#!!); there is a vb app in the Tools & Apps forum by ROFLcopter64bit iirc...here it is http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24931-0-22-KSP-Utilities-Save-backup-application-Tungsten-Alpha-2 that also allows a better way of editting the tree outside of the game.

Currently my version (not released until it can do more stuff! - like saving data for a start!) reads thru' the gamedata directory and picks out all your part configs. It will also read a tree.cfg of the users choosing.

[Nelien]

I'm already writing something like this in c# (while I get my head around the foibles of c#!!); there is a vb app in the Tools & Apps forum by ROFLcopter64bit iirc...here it is http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/24931-0-22-KSP-Utilities-Save-backup-application-Tungsten-Alpha-2 that also allows a better way of editting the tree outside of the game.

Currently my version (not released until it can do more stuff! - like saving data for a start!) reads thru' the gamedata directory and picks out all your part configs. It will also read a tree.cfg of the users choosing.

That sounds great! The thing I'm considering (and I'm only just trying stuff out, haven't had time to really get into writing it, been a while since I coded anything), is actually rather different but would work quite well together with your part-detector script. I mean, I'm writing mine in c# too, so that could possibly become a join project.

My idea was to have an application that is somewhat disconnected to KSP (don't know how to deal with KSP GUI stuff yet, nor do I think I have the time for it) but that can parse and write to the tree.cfg file (either using KSPs parser which I already know how to use or I would write my own, pretty easy stuff) and has a simple GUI with a checkbox style list of all the mods the tree supports. Then the user can simple check which mods they have, hit "Save" and the tree.cfg would adjust the tree accordingly.

I just wanted something simple to start with, but if could to the whole process automatically, with your part-detecting code, it would remove the user input all together.

PS. Does your code find all the part.cfg files or does it actually find all the individual PARTs? Because there are mods that have multiple parts in one part.cfg file. And some that don't even call their part.cfg file "part.cfg".

[fronbow]

Yes, mine is external to the game (I needed a good reason to learn how c# works and this sounded like the ideal project!). I'm from a php, python, pascal, c/c++, basic background so the logic is all there, it's just getting used to how c# does things which feels almost alien to everything I've done before!!

Maybe we should compare notes?!

My KSPTreeUtil was just reading the part files until I realised the other week (like you) that some mods don't call theirs part.cfg or have multiple parts in one file. I'm currently trying to work out the best way of parsing the files to put the data into a more human-readable way! (It's a good job I like RegEx's!!!)

Also, because of this, I started thinking that I need essentially 3 lists: 1 to show all the available parts, 1 to show parts that were already connected in the tree.cfg, and 1 to show unconnected parts that didn't appear in the tree.

At some point down the line I would like to do something similar to ROFLCopter64bit's prog and show some kind of preview of the tree (if only to make the pos parameter make a little more sense to the average user!).

Maybe I should stick this on github? Although I don't want everyone to see it just yet - it's very messy code atm

[Ackander]

Perhaps they meant 'non-integrated mods'?

In that case.. probably not exactly under some circumstances. If the AckandersVerticalTechTree.cfg file is in the GameData folder, it will take away all techrequired information, which the tree is supposed to replace. I did that because there was an instance of the tree not rendering correctly for someone when they were just using TreeLoader.

So if you are not using TreeEdit and have mods that are not integrated, they will work if you do not have the AckandersVerticalTechTree.cfg file in the GameData folder, and the tree will work if you do not have module manager config files that change the techrequired field in part configs. Namely, VetTech was somehow causing connections to be deleted, so you would have nodes in the middle of the tree that are available at the beginning.

Something else that was not clear, so I will try to make it more clear in the first post.

[Ackander]

I was getting ready to start doing all of that in VB, read the names of all the parts in GameData folder, compare list to tree.cfg, write new tree.cfg to reflect changes to cost.. but if everyone else is going to do this too, it would be redundant for me to get on it too.

[Nelien]

I was getting ready to start doing all of that in VB, read the names of all the parts in GameData folder, compare list to tree.cfg, write new tree.cfg to reflect changes to cost.. but if everyone else is going to do this too, it would be redundant for me to get on it too.

Haha, well, I can't speak for fronbow, but I wouldn't count on me getting anything done .

And also, I'm not going to do anything if you prefer to do it yourself. This is your project, and I'm just playing around with it because I like it and if I can help a project I like then all the more fun. But do say so if I'm stepping on any toes!

If not, and you're happy with us working on this then maybe you should consider making a developer thread in the developer subforum? Might not want to fill the release thread with technical mumble on development stuff.

@fronbow: You should see my code . But hey, let's not be shy! I'll put mine on github before tonight.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Nelien

[fronbow]

Haha, well, I can't speak for fronbow, but I wouldn't count on me getting anything done .

And also, I'm not going to do anything if you prefer to do it yourself. This is your project, and I'm just playing around with it because I like it and if I can help a project I like then all the more fun. But do say so if I'm stepping on any toes!

If not, and you're happy with us working on this then maybe you should consider making a developer thread in the developer subforum? Might not want to fill the release thread with technical mumble on development stuff.

@fronbow: You should see my code . But hey, let's not be shy! I'll put mine on github before tonight.

I have bits that work at least! And one day soon it might even allow edits to be made to a tree and for that tree to be saved!! I just seem to be stuck on all the complex stuff lately.

I'm more than happy to do some collaboration with you both, and when/if we finish then it might be a decent tool for other people to use too?!!

FWIW: My reasoning to use c# was because I play on Windows and Linux so a cross-platform tool would be more use to me, and the community in the long run

[Ackander]

Haha, well, I can't speak for fronbow, but I wouldn't count on me getting anything done .

And also, I'm not going to do anything if you prefer to do it yourself. This is your project, and I'm just playing around with it because I like it and if I can help a project I like then all the more fun. But do say so if I'm stepping on any toes!

If not, and you're happy with us working on this then maybe you should consider making a developer thread in the developer subforum? Might not want to fill the release thread with technical mumble on development stuff.

@fronbow: You should see my code . But hey, let's not be shy! I'll put mine on github before tonight.

I have bits that work at least! And one day soon it might even allow edits to be made to a tree and for that tree to be saved!! I just seem to be stuck on all the complex stuff lately.

I'm more than happy to do some collaboration with you both, and when/if we finish then it might be a decent tool for other people to use too?!!

FWIW: My reasoning to use c# was because I play on Windows and Linux so a cross-platform tool would be more use to me, and the community in the long run

As much as I would enjoy learning to do this all myself, doing all the work, and taking all the credit.. _{so much credit..} .. I more than welcome any time and effort people are willing to give to this project. I do not mind sharing the project with you guys, in fact I know it would be better than if I did it all. We might have to come up with a better name though than My Vertical TechTree. I will get a new thread up in development subforum as soon as possible too.

Anyway I am frankly surprised nobody has tried to make a successor to TreeEdit/Loader by now. We might like to outline our goals some too.

Oh, by the way, I just put up the new v1.15.45.c release. I need to see if it is possible to save the tree.cfg with all parts onto the TreeEdit system, or if it only saves the current state of the tree on the screen, as in a version of VTT missing most parts. I do not think there is a way to load all the mod parts at once memory constraint-wise.

Gah, drop box is fried for the moment (or my firewall maybe?). I will update the download link as soon as possible.

[Nelien]

Here's the github of my stuff so far (here's a compiled executable, not guaranteed to work ), it doesn't do anything other than opens up a window that lists all the parts in the tech tree. It's just for testing.

I have bits that work at least! And one day soon it might even allow edits to be made to a tree and for that tree to be saved!! I just seem to be stuck on all the complex stuff lately.

I'm more than happy to do some collaboration with you both, and when/if we finish then it might be a decent tool for other people to use too?!!

FWIW: My reasoning to use c# was because I play on Windows and Linux so a cross-platform tool would be more use to me, and the community in the long run

Put the stuff up on github! I'm curious of what troubling you when it comes to saving stuff. Shouldn't be too hard if you already know how to read/load!

As much as I would enjoy learning to do this all myself, doing all the work, and taking all the credit.. _{so much credit..} .. I more than welcome any time and effort people are willing to give to this project. I do not mind sharing the project with you guys, in fact I know it would be better than if I did it all. We might have to come up with a better name though than My Vertical TechTree. I will get a new thread up in development subforum as soon as possible too.

Anyway I am frankly surprised nobody has tried to make a successor to TreeEdit/Loader by now. We might like to outline our goals some too.

Oh, by the way, I just put up the new v1.15.45.c release. I need to see if it is possible to save the tree.cfg with all parts onto the TreeEdit system, or if it only saves the current state of the tree on the screen, as in a version of VTT missing most parts. I do not think there is a way to load all the mod parts at once memory constraint-wise.

Gah, drop box is fried for the moment (or my firewall maybe?). I will update the download link as soon as possible.

I would stick with Ackander's Vertical TechTree for now, it's a name people know, and honestly I like the name . I'll post a bit of what my idea for my helper tool is tomorrow (it's quite late now in my timezone), but all I can say for now is that I want to start small, just something that helps you Ackander and the users to use your tech tree. If we can make something that other people would want to use for other this then great, but that's not my initial goal.

[fronbow]

Thankyou, my app is here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/33224413/KSPTreeUtil.exe for your perusal!

I followed you on github

(And yes, it's not far off morning in our timezone now!!)

[cxg2827]

Ive played this tech tree for a bit and I am really liking it. At first I wasnt sure how the tree progressed, so I expanded in directions that left me with too much grinding to get the parachutes. After 2 more re-tries, I managed to get a method to get quick science to allow me to have parachutes within 20 minutes.

My save includes DRE, KW, and a few others. My playing style is to make realistic looking crafts without reaching into the realm of absurdity. First missions were just the command pod at the runway and the launch pad. from here I did 2 runs of collecting samples, eva reports, and crew reports from KSC, Launchpad, and the runway. Afterwards, i began to unlock some nodes, making a beeline to unlock the parachutes asap.

My next craft was a skimmer that controlled like a helicopter. I used this to get more science from kerbins shores and from the waters. The grid sections provide a bit of a wider footprint, and more crash resistance. after a few launches getting 2 runs of samples from the waters and shores, I was able to unlock the small nodial parachutes.

Following this unlock, I made a simple single SRB craft with thrust limited to 35, which let me do some bouts to the grass land and high atmosphere. Once again, I used the grid segments for fixed landing gear to prevent explosions.

Overall, this method allowed me to get parachutes within 20 minutes, and compound rocketry within the first hour.

As long as you know what the tree layout is before you start, its not too bad of an initial grind. I also enjoy how the nodes do a bit of storytelling as you progress and unlock the parts. Its good to see as well that the scientific instruments go off on their own branch, so you can focus on getting all of those. My gripe with career mode was having to burn through a bunch of nodes to get the instruments.

This is a great tree and I like the flow of unlocking so far:). I have one question though. the "Fall Softening Wreckage Reducers" node is empty for me. Is this intentional, or is there suppose to be some addons that get unlocked in that node?

Here are my screenshots of my first crafts, including my first rocket capable of reaching low orbit and returning.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

[Ackander]

Ive played this tech tree for a bit and I am really liking it. At first I wasnt sure how the tree progressed, so I expanded in directions that left me with too much grinding to get the parachutes. After 2 more re-tries, I managed to get a method to get quick science to allow me to have parachutes within 20 minutes.

My save includes DRE, KW, and a few others. My playing style is to make realistic looking crafts without reaching into the realm of absurdity. First missions were just the command pod at the runway and the launch pad. from here I did 2 runs of collecting samples, eva reports, and crew reports from KSC, Launchpad, and the runway. Afterwards, i began to unlock some nodes, making a beeline to unlock the parachutes asap.

My next craft was a skimmer that controlled like a helicopter. I used this to get more science from kerbins shores and from the waters. The grid sections provide a bit of a wider footprint, and more crash resistance. after a few launches getting 2 runs of samples from the waters and shores, I was able to unlock the small nodial parachutes.

Following this unlock, I made a simple single SRB craft with thrust limited to 35, which let me do some bouts to the grass land and high atmosphere. Once again, I used the grid segments for fixed landing gear to prevent explosions.

Overall, this method allowed me to get parachutes within 20 minutes, and compound rocketry within the first hour.

As long as you know what the tree layout is before you start, its not too bad of an initial grind. I also enjoy how the nodes do a bit of storytelling as you progress and unlock the parts. Its good to see as well that the scientific instruments go off on their own branch, so you can focus on getting all of those. My gripe with career mode was having to burn through a bunch of nodes to get the instruments.

This is a great tree and I like the flow of unlocking so far:). I have one question though. the "Fall Softening Wreckage Reducers" node is empty for me. Is this intentional, or is there suppose to be some addons that get unlocked in that node?

Here are my screenshots of my first crafts, including my first rocket capable of reaching low orbit and returning.

http://imgur.com/a/E5x2F

Looks like you are off to a great start. Yes, knowing the node layout before hand is very helpful. I really did a number on the structure though this last update, so I did not update the tree map. The old ones are in my imgur though. Did you get to see my start guide on the front page? My multi capsule 'rover' helped get me to the shore pretty quick, when I did not try time warping and running at the same time after getting out to take samples (poofed a couple of times from 'colliding with the ground'(?)).

You made me realize the tweakables changes things with solids rockets, being able to set the max thrust. You could theoretically use them to launch up, then an array of more srbs set at low thrust to soften your fall. I am going to try that next time I get to play.

The first parachute node does have a couple of mod parachutes in it. The one from Nova Punch, a tiny envelope from Hooligan Labs designed as a parachute, and the Vanguard parachute box. You cannot really tell what might be in there unless you check out the tree.cfg file.

If you ever have any suggetions or questions about the tree or just want to say something, feel free to stop by.

[jalapen0]

I have been really enjoying this techtree. I was able to orbit the moon on about the fourth launch. The rocket looked like a silly contraption like if someone built a giant rocket in 1910. Anyways, i have alot of empty nodes. Especially logistics. Im using novapunch and a few smaller ones. Could you give use some recommended mods to fill out the nodes with some return on science without blowing the memory cap? That would be helpful. Thanks!

Edit: for instance what do you use to play?

Edited January 19, 2014 by jalapen0

[Ackander]

I have been really enjoying this techtree. I was able to orbit the moon on about the fourth launch. The rocket looked like a silly contraption like if someone built a giant rocket in 1910. Anyways, i have alot of empty nodes. Especially logistics. Im using novapunch and a few smaller ones. Could you give use some recommended mods to fill out the nodes with some return on science without blowing the memory cap? That would be helpful. Thanks!

Edit: for instance what do you use to play?

Ah, I see. Logistics is for mods that add life support, like TAC Life Support, ECLSS, or IonCross Crew Support. Below parachutes you have heatshields, which will be empty if you do not have Deadly Reentry. If you want to play with those two mods, those are mainly where the parts will be located, otherwise you can ignore them. My latest parts mod list consists of a bunch that I have not gotten around to trying yet (for personal fun at least), but I am going to have to trim it down a lot because of the memory constraint.

B9_Aerospace

BeastlyScience

BobCat's Soviet Pack

DeadlyReentry

HexCans

Tri-Hex "Struts" (They are really trusses)

Kerbal Attachment System

Procedural Fairings

Space Shuttle Engines

KWRocketry

KSP Interstellar

SpaceX Launch Pack

MechJeb2

Service Compartments

NovaPunch2

ProceduralDynamics

RealChute

RemoteTech2

SCANsat

SDHI

TAC Life Support (+all the parts from ECLSS and IonCross modified for TAC LS)

TiberDyne Space Shuttle Parts

And a few that are not on the tree yet like FASA, the ALCORE Lander, ESA Pack, Vostok and Noyuz

I have been hitting 3.2 GB in ramcommit, and crashed a couple of times already. I do not know which ones I will remove. I am going to try installing texture packs, even though the Memory Reduction mod says you do not need them. Worth a shot at least. But it will have to wait until top secret project is finished (something for myself and what others might like too, we shall see).

[exigaen]

I've been using this mod since the last release, and find it quite a bit better than the stock tech tree. Sure, the empty nodes are a little bit annoying but I can live with that. I do have a request though. Any chance you could integrate FAR into the mod please?

[likke_A_boss]

I've been using this mod since the last release, and find it quite a bit better than the stock tech tree. Sure, the empty nodes are a little bit annoying but I can live with that. I do have a request though. Any chance you could integrate FAR into the mod please?

FAR is a partless mod...

On another topic, how's it comin'? Still progressing on this mod? I am loving career mode with mod, just about to send a probe to fly-by the Mun and Mmunninus(yeah, I can spell) in one go. All dat tasty science.

[Ackander]

I have put updating the Vertical TechTree on hold unless someone finds a problem that needs fixing, partially because of waning interest and primarily because of another project in development. It is too soon to know a timetable... all in good time though.

[Motokid600]

Sorry if im beating a dead horse, but I don't see FASA in the used mods.

[Barklight]

I like your tech tree remap. Any chance you'd be willing to integrate the LLL components into it on your next update? Even the Lite version would be pretty nice, I'm trying to use a Frankenstein merge of LLL Lite and TAC to create a self-sufficient colony.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Barklight

[Ackander]

Sorry if im beating a dead horse, but I don't see FASA in the used mods.

No dead horse yet. But, you are correct in your observations. I was in the process of doing an update which would have included FASA when I got busy with a new project..

[likke_A_boss]

A new project..... May I ask what tho is?

[Ackander]

I like your tech tree remap. Any chance you'd be willing to integrate the LLL components into it on your next update? Even the Lite version would be pretty nice, I'm trying to use a Frankenstein merge of LLL Lite and TAC to create a self-sufficient colony.

Glad you like it. It was quite the task to make. As far as LLL, I have implimented version 10.7.3 (current version) into the tree already. You should find the parts scattered about the tree in comms, structures, rocketry, and aeroframe disciplines. If you are not finding them, let me know and I will try to figure out what is going on.