Alternative way of generating sience in career mode

[Hilvon]

First of all - sorry if my enlish is bad. Not native to me and stuff.

After I discovered seismometers in Career mode and started using it it really hit me hard. Current sience-generating is way off. The mentioned seismometer is a good example of it. A time-point observation really has a zero sientific value. The only way you can get some valuable observation is to collect data for some continious time.

Same with thermometers. Barometers. Weather-computers (which to be frank should include bothe thermometer amd barometers in it, but irrelevant...)

And I started to think of a system that would be easy to calculate and give more reasonable way of collecting sience... And piece by peice I got something together:

Make the modules generate observations not on activation, but rather use activation as "Start observation" point. And after this module will produce random location-specific observations that are then stored in crew-capsule memory (which also may be limited and expandable by ship modules) just like EVA-reports and surface sample are now. So instead of running same experiment several times you activate a module and wait for it to generate several observations.

As an addition you may limit sience module resources and make those deplete while the module is active (like if you run out of goo you no longer can observe goo).

Like I mentioned there should be several observations in each location. And each observation is not guarateed to happen. They have probability. And by tweaking this probabilityes you divide your sience modules into several groups, like:

1) Few observations with high probability (5-10%/second) each. - Goo-can, Materials lab. These modules are best used for "hit and run" mission, where you get into the area for a short time and don't intend to return for more.

2) Several observations with low probability - Seismograph, Magnetometre, Gravitometre - These modules are best used for "probe-style" surveys, when you leave them in area for extended time before recovering their results. Return them too fast - and high hancec you end up with no data of value.

And of course ther might be some modules that have the combination of both. Like you get some data quickly. But this data has value only during first times you observe it. And by monitoring for extended time you get the chance to score some observation od anomalies.

As a bit of complicating, but making things more realistic you can attach those "special observations" not to modules, but to locations. And as this thing happens in location active modules in this location register it. ((Though that will result in lots of accounting of trees falling when no one's there to hear it.))

[JumpsterG]

Good suggestions. I like that this makes a bigger event out of right-click, Science! and gives more results from a single mission. Starting the experiment and watching it generate multiple results would be fun. The requirement for the player to potentially wait much longer for each experiment sounds annoying, though. Not sure how to improve on that.

I really like the idea that science instruments (and Kerbals?) could "witness" and collect science from special phenomenon if they're in the right place at the right time. Some examples might be eclipses, aurora, periodic seismic events, volcano/geiser eruptions, weather patterns. I would try to reduce the random factor and make these events as predictable as possible, so that specific missions to explore these phenomenon are not prone to random failure through no fault of the player.

[Atoning Unifex]

+1 to this. I like the idea of measurements over time. Reading temperature on entry into an atmosphere for example, or simply granting greater research benefit from experiments the longer you run then (to a point).

[horndgmium]

Maybe if the science device is just always on, and you can se a readout, for science value, and you get notified (for more science value of course) if something changes?

Or maybe you could go back and look at the data and "notice" a change and get science for that.

[Luis]

There will, of course, be someone along in a minute to say that time warp will trivialise any time-based science but I say not necessarily! If computer storage is limited, if manned missions only have limited life support resources, if there are scheduled science events like volcanic erruptions and eclipses that you'll miss if you just time warp all the time, then I think the problem is greatly reduced. The game doesn't need to prohibit grinding for science if that's really what someone wants to do. It just needs to make sure it doesn't actively encourage grinding by making it more effective not to grind/transmit spam/time warp your way to max science.

[Hilvon]

There will, of course, be someone along in a minute to say that time warp will trivialise any time-based science but I say not necessarily! If computer storage is limited, if manned missions only have limited life support resources, if there are scheduled science events like volcanic erruptions and eclipses that you'll miss if you just time warp all the time, then I think the problem is greatly reduced. The game doesn't need to prohibit grinding for science if that's really what someone wants to do. It just needs to make sure it doesn't actively encourage grinding by making it more effective not to grind/transmit spam/time warp your way to max science.

Really good additions!

Though I though a way to countermeasure for this timewarp abuse in terms of limited lifespan of research modules (while they are active). By depletable internal resource for example.

[Kegereneku]

I don't think it's a good idea to make "good observation" a question of luck.

If the goal is to encourage/require multiple measure around a biome.

Require the player to do observations at different locations in the same biome.

Small problem is that it may require an User-Interface to help the player plan where to go next.

The advantage is that it would make Rover incredibly useful.

One of my preferred idea is for experiment to take time. It would give a huge boost to specialized probes and singlehandedly justify satellites.

But until know I didn't knew how to make the mobility of rover useful inside biome.

Really good additions!

Though I though a way to countermeasure for this timewarp abuse in terms of limited lifespan of research modules (while they are active). By depletable internal resource for example.

You know what would be an even better countermeasure to timewarp abuse ? Kerbonaut Payroll.

It would make a 10 month manned missions way more costly than a 2 years robotic probes.

[Sathurn]

I totally like this idea.

Science needs a lot of standard data points so that you can identify the exceptions and hunt down why they are exceptions. However for this to work we need the ability to leave a probe in place. Watching a probe in polar orbit sweep the surface (in real time or accelerated) is only interesting for one or two orbits. Yet reading the map a full sweep makes could be very interesting.

[allmappedout]

You know what would be an even better countermeasure to timewarp abuse ? Kerbonaut Payroll.

It would make a 10 month manned missions way more costly than a 2 years robotic probes.

Pay them?!

We already give them snacks, what more do they want!? Next they'll be asking for health insurance, a dental plan....

KERBALNAUTS OF THE WORLD UNITE!