Mars radiation not so bad after all

[SargeRho]

"It is nobody's goal to build a spacefaring civilisation."

A certain person who founded a certain rocketry company, a certain car company, and is the chief engineer on both would disagree with that sentiment.

[Nibb31]

"It is nobody's goal to build a spacefaring civilisation."

A certain person who founded a certain rocketry company, a certain car company, and is the chief engineer on both would disagree with that sentiment.

It takes more than one person to build a civilization.

[SargeRho]

It only takes one to get the ball rolling.

[MBobrik]

It takes more than one person to build a civilization.

wrroooom-wrroooom goes the warp core and the goalposts start moving...

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It is nobody's goal to build a spacefaring civilization.

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well... nobody. except all space agencies, almost all people on this forum, all non-backwards segments of the population...

My guess is, that the only one around there who is against a spacefaring civilization is you.

Edited December 16, 2013 by MBobrik

[NASAFanboy]

You're getting all worked up again. Time to sit back and look at the real world instead of watching Star Trek. From all your messages, the feeling I get is that your goal in life is to live a science fiction adventure in your lifetime. That's nice, but you've got to remember that science fiction universes are pure fiction, in exactly the same way the Hobbit universe does not reflect real medieval times. It's entertainment, not a prophecy.

You are just a kid that has been raised on sci-fi movies and TV shows in one of the richest countries in the world. Your fantasy goal does not reflect the aspirations of all 8 billion of us on Earth. Humanity is a diverse group with many backgrounds, cultures, religions, and desires. You can ask Native Americans, Indigenous Australians, Africans, Indians, Philipinos, Lost amazonian tribes, Tibetan monks, Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Scientists, Criminals, Artists, etc... All of these groups have different ideas of what the goal of Humanity is, and none knows better than the other, because there simply is no universal goal or destiny that unites all Humanity.

It is nobody's goal to build a spacefaring civilization. There is no political party on Earth, no organization, no government agency, not even a cult, that has that goal. It is just your fantasy, which I suspect only comes from watching too much Star Trek. Building colonies on other planets or emigrating off-world is in nobody's interest. It might be a romantic idea and an entertaining background for a good book, but it's not going to happen that way, and not now.

Our goal, if there is one, is to expand human knowledge and - I guess - to survive as a species. That's it, and neither of those goals require space colonies and interstellar empires.

From your point of view, it appears that you are highly against humanity being a spacefaring civilization. I don't watch Star Trek, or Star Wars, or any of that "OMG SPACE FIGHTERS FIRE TEH PROTON TORPEDOS PEW PEW PEW" crap, but instead focus on watching documentaries, reading hard scifi novels and history books on space travel, and generally focusing my studies on rocketry. It is not my goal to live the life of a scifi adventure, it is my goal that my children can, and if not, my grand children. I'm not looking at this for myself, I'm wanting to do this for my race (Pride in oneself's own species is a strong belief of mine).

What do you mean that it is nobodies goal?

It is mine, and I am someone. It is the stated goal of EVERY space agency out there, and they are staffed by people who share in the ideal. It is the goal of some politicans (I'm glad that NASA has some true backers and believers on Capitol hill), and it is the goal of Elon Musk and possibly hundreds of young visionaries out there running around with toy rocket ships and reading about orbital mechanics. Of the ethicities you mentioned, all are supportive of spaceflight...it's the only goal that is uniting the entire human race (Well, that is, if you leave out the Flat Earth Society and a couple 'go green' people). Look at Iran. It's pursuing a highly successful spaceprogram, despite having a belief that Allah is always right. Look at China. It too, is pursuing a successful program, despite the fact that many still follow the teachings of Conficous.

Spaceflight, if anything, is one of the most shared beliefs among the human race. I recall this story I read online once, about some third-world villagers who supported spaceflight and wanted NASA to return to the moon. Third World Villagers. Straving, malnourished, and suffering from poverty, they still have the ability to dream and want spaceflight.

And as for you?

[Nibb31]

well... nobody. except all space agencies, almost all people on this forum, all non-backwards segments of the population...

That's still a pretty small minority when compared to the billions of other people on Earth who have different priorities. If you ran an interplanetary poll, you would probably find that building colonies on Mars would be pretty low on the list of priorities, way behind things like improving life expectancy, fighting diseases, reducing emissions, more efficient use of resources, spiritual enlightenment, respecting nature, improving education, justice, work conditions, and so on...

My point was that we can't project our own dreams on the entire human race and expect them to be accepted as universal goals. Every culture, every group, every individual has their own dreams. Not everyone dreams of a future like Star Trek.

My guess is, that the only one around there who is against a spacefaring civilization is you.

I'm not against it. I'm actually pretty sure that we will get there one day, in it's own sweet time. I don't see the urgency. However, I do see the urgency in some other pressing issues, and if we don't fix those near-term problems, then we might not get a chance to enjoy a long-term future.

I'm actually pretty enthusiastic about space exploration, but we've only done baby steps. We still need to learn to walk before we can run. These things take time and aiming for goals that are unrealistic is just going to set us up for failure when what we direly need right now are some short term successes. We've been shown plans for "Colonies on Mars in 20 years" for 80 years now, so I'm sorry if I don't believe them any more.

I'm more impressed with China landing a rover on the Moon than on yet more "artist's impressions" of future interplanetary cruisers. I'm more enthusiastic about using the capabilities that we have right now than about heavy launchers that we might have in 10 years or warp drives that we might get in 50 years.

I find more amazement in looking at current technology and achievements than in dreaming about a science fiction future.

[MBobrik]

I'm not against it. I'm actually pretty sure that we will get there one day, in it's own sweet time. I don't see the urgency. However, I do see the urgency in some other pressing issues, and if we don't fix those near-term problems, then we might not get a chance to enjoy a long-term future.

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nice backpedaling. Now you aren't against it, now you just want the mankind do something else this, something else that first, oh, and look, something shiny over there !

excuses of a person who is wholeheartedly against something yet does not want to admit it openly...

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My point was that we can't project our own dreams on the entire human race and expect them to be accepted as universal goals.

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What other goals you have in mind ? Like caring only about immediate survival or hedonistic pleasure, not caring about the future of mankind at all ? Like eagerly awaiting the apocalypse ? What are the other, more popular alternate goals of the human race ?

Edited December 16, 2013 by MBobrik

[quasarrgames]

What about a magnetic field emitter around the ship and the base? Wouldn't protect from all radiation, but maybe it would protect from some.

PS i know NOTHING about radiation, other than magnetic fields can push it and objects can absorb it and it gives cancer.

[SargeRho]

That would be heavier than just adding a layer of polyethylene, or putting the fuel tanks around the crew section. A magnetic field generator could also only shield against protons and electrons. It would do very little against things like neutrons and x-rays...and you would need a ginormous power source.