Midget Rocketry (STOCK)

[SpenSpaceCorp]

RESULTS ARE IN:

Kasuha http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/members/83982-Kasuha has created the shortest vessel able to attain orbit, less than half of a kerbal tall, making Kerbalkind proud!

The Kerbals at KSC are getting pretty jealous of the fact that the rockets they fly into space are much taller than they are.

Mission:

Build the shortest (heightwise) rocket that can achieve Kerbin orbit with a periapse above the atmosphere (height of the periapse does not count towards score, it just needs to be above 70 000m).

Rules:

-Stock Only

-No asparagus staging (fuel being fed into other tanks and then dropped) *HOWEVER: fuel being fed into central tanks ARE allowed AS LONG AS no tanks are dropped in this process

-Stages must stage VERTICALLY not Horizontally.

-No radial mounted engines allowed.

-No RCS allowed

-Absolutely no cheats (alt f12 menu)

Timeframe:

Contest ends Saturday, January 18, 2014

Judging:

-The only criteria for judgement is height, measured the square structural panels (the height of the side of them)

-A picture of the height of the craft is required with structural panels beside it to judge height. (see picture below for an example how to do this). A picture of the resulting orbit is not required. It just has to make it into orbit above the atmosphere.

-Height is determined by stacking large probe cores spanning from the top of your vessel to the bottom (see images below for example; mine is 16 probe cores tall)

EDIT: now height is determined with the SIDE HEIGHT of square structural panels as the vessels can get quite small.

Here is my attempt, providing a possible layout and example of criteria, as well as a way to judge height:

This is an example of HOW to tell the height of the vessel. (Ex: use flat panels from the top, build sideways, then build down using large probe cores) Note the use of panels on the bottom to make sure the probe cores span from the top all the way to the bottom. (Mine is 16 large probe cores tall)

EDIT: now height is determined with the SIDE HEIGHT of square structural panels as the vessels can get quite small.

In flight:

Staging:

Resulting Orbit:

Edited January 28, 2014 by SpenSpaceCorp

[Sirine]

You don't need that much fuel.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Sirine

[SpenSpaceCorp]

Nice! I was just trying to present an example which includes many different possible ways (like using a method of many short tanks connected.

[Sirine]

dawg made this...

I made an even smaller one... Much more complex, though, and it does use Oscar Bs and Toroidal fuel tanks.

Before launch... 1.52t!

In orbit, with only a tiny bit of fuel left...

It's 2 Oscar Bs, an Octo2 core, a 48-7S, MJ (on an OB), and a stack of Toroidal fuel tanks. End dV was 87m/s, starting at 1.52t, with an ap of 70,585m & pe of 69,256m...

I'm not sure it's possible to go lower in mass and actually get off Kerbin. The only smaller engine is the LV1, which I don't think produce enough thrust to lift a single fuel tank off the pad in Kerbin's gravity, but I could be wrong.

[SpenSpaceCorp]

Nice, however the contest is being judged on the height of the vessel, not the mass. Good entry though! Also since they can become quite short, if it is smaller than around 1-3 large probe cores, height is now judged by the square structural panels.

[Sirine]

Non Alt-F12 part clipping. Check the fuel units...100.

[Smidge204]

I dub thee NUGT2. It's ~12 structural panels high. Decided to **** away all the fuel and ended up with the orbit you see in the third screen.

It's shorter than an Oscar-B tank, OCTO2 probe and 48-7S stacked, unless someone is naughty and clips the OCTO2 probe core into the fuel tank (which can be done with out the cheat) - in which case it's the same height - 12 structural panels.

=Smidge=

Edited December 30, 2013 by Smidge204
Just verified the height... 12 panels not 12.5. NUGT1 was 12.5 'cause I didn't angle the probe cores!

[Kasuha]

I don't know if it can be made any shorter given the rules. Half structural panel height here. Or more exactly, height of OCTO2 on 48-7S plus a tiny bit for the cubic strut.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Kasuha

[Kasuha]

Okay, I'm pretty sure the minimum achievable height is height of Structural Panel on top of 48-7S. I don't see a way how to get below that. And adjusting my ship to get into that height is not that hard, I'm just feeling lazy at the moment.

Edit: reduce it to height of 48-7S alone.

Edited December 30, 2013 by Kasuha

[Sirine]

You forget the engine for ANT.

[Kasuha]

You forget the engine for ANT.

LV-1 is bigger. okay, it's not bigger.

But actual minimum is height of Oscar-B fuel tank, i.e. slightly more than 48-7S height. Because torodial tank mount on cubic strut is about exactly the same height as Oscar-B and as either fuel tank doesn't allow radial mounting, I can't draw fuel directly from them. So they need to be mounted on something crossfeed capable.

[SpenSpaceCorp]

Alright, seeing how a minimum height can be achieved, if there is a tie height wise, the tiebreaker will be the vessel with the least amount of mass.

[SRV Ron]

This was done in another attempt. The Stayputnik can be replaced with a much shorter controller and batteries eliminated.

[SRV Ron]

Just completed testing and flight. 3 parts stock SSTO. Probodobodyne OKTO2, FL-T200 fuel can, Rocomax 48-7s rocket. Barely had enough battery power to achieve orbit.

Edited December 31, 2013 by SRV Ron
Update with mass and part numbers.

[SRV Ron]

LV-1 is bigger. okay, it's not bigger.

But actual minimum is height of Oscar-B fuel tank, i.e. slightly more than 48-7S height. Because torodial tank mount on cubic strut is about exactly the same height as Oscar-B and as either fuel tank doesn't allow radial mounting, I can't draw fuel directly from them. So they need to be mounted on something crossfeed capable.

Try this. One Oscar B for the core, 48-7s rocket, Probodobodine OKJO2 controller. Set symmetry to 3. Mount a cubic strut on the side of the Oscar B. Add a rotated Oscar B to the cubic strut. Add a fuel line. To reach orbit, you will need a horizontal stack of five Oscar B tanks for a total of 16 of them. Watch your thrust during flight as the drag factor is much higher then using the single FL-T200 fuel can. I was able to reach 70+k orbit with that design.

While those will probably be the shortest capable of reaching orbit with a stock engine, none mounted radically, it is not a good design due to parts count, high drag, and higher mass then my three part design.

[Smidge204]

Try this. One Oscar B for the core, 48-7s rocket

By stacking these two items, you have already lost this challenge. Just FYI. The challenge is for the *shortest* rocket to reach orbit, not the most efficient or fewest number of parts. Total mass is just a tiebreaker.

If Kasuha can demonstrate that his pancake contraption gets into orbit (and it probably can), then (s)he wins since there is no conceivable way to make a qualifying craft any shorter. The *entire* craft being the height of an Oscar-B is the absolute limit as the LV-1 simply does not have the power or efficiency for the job.

And making a craft that short requires quite a bit of (non-cheating) part clipping.

=Smidge=

[Kasuha]

Okay, here you go. Just slightly more than 6 panel widths in height (seventh panel is the "floor" on which it is sitting).

I know a way how to mount it even shorter but I did not find a way how to get it to orbit because it makes the fuel tank too heavy.

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[SRV Ron]

Quick effort this morning came up just short by 28 delta V to orbit at 70+k. Two more Oscar B fuel cans should do it or possibly trying for the most efficient launch possible. It flies well.

BTY, no parts are clipping into the fuel tanks.

Edited December 31, 2013 by SRV Ron

[SRV Ron]

Ran into a roadblock with the Oscar B tanks, too much weight. Adding the two extra tanks resulted in no improvement at all. I suspect that the same over weight problem is going to plague the donut tank design not to mention the atmosphere drag factor during early flight.

Went back to the FL-T200 design and split them to a pair of FL-T100, about the height of the Oscar B on the side and maintained the launch weight that worked. Success, orbit achieved with fuel to spare.

[SpenSpaceCorp]

Entries are now CLOSED as of midnight tonight (Mountain Standard Time) and judging will occur sometime in the near future (I am extremely busy with diploma prep and diplomas, reviews, etc so please be patient

[Captain Sierra]

@SRV Ron

What happened there is that the Oscar B dry mass:total mass ratio is about half of that or EVERY OTHER STOCK TANK. Basically, it's horribly balanced and should carry about twice as much fuel or be half the size (those shift figures are based off Hoojiiwana's extrapolation work for RLA stockalike). basically the Oscar B is a useless piece of crap.

[SRV Ron]

@SRV Ron

What happened there is that the Oscar B dry mass:total mass ratio is about half of that or EVERY OTHER STOCK TANK. Basically, it's horribly balanced and should carry about twice as much fuel or be half the size (those shift figures are based off Hoojiiwana's extrapolation work for RLA stockalike). basically the Oscar B is a useless piece of crap.

Which is exactly why they failed to achieve orbit where the two FL-T100 design did so easily. With the equivalent amount of fuel, they were just too heavy.

[SpenSpaceCorp]

Congradulations Kasuha http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/members/83982-Kasuha on creating the shortest vessel able to attain orbit! The Kerbals are proud of your achievement!