Probes, discoverable science, a quest for knowledge and the Fog of Jeb

[JadedStoner]

I've noticed a few posts about science being grindy, probes being pointless and a desire for more science parts in general. I've been pondering this for a few days, so I'm going to outline a few thoughts I think could make the gameplay way more fun.

First - TL;DR = Make planet stats discoverable, give sensors a purpose, probes unlock manned missions

1) First and foremost, probes should be an entry level component along with the four main science parts and the single solar panel. The driving force being a space program is the desire to learn more detailed information about distant worlds. It's arguable that Kerbal scientists would have need for these types of sensors for testing their parts, so in theory, the space program has access to that level of tech.

2) With all the science sensors available, you can now hide the planet/moon stats such as mass, atmosphere height, surface gravity with the Fog of Jeb. I feel this could create a scenario where probes must conduct a fly-by to collect x,y and z before you can send manned missions. NASA sent seven probes (two did crash...) with the Surveyor program before sending the Apollo missions (remember, Apollo 8 only went into orbit and Apollo 10 got to within 8km of the surface, but didn't land). While I don't want to stress such detailed realism, I think probe landings would be a nice way to convey a sense of legacy for the gamer.

3) So how would discoverable stats appear in-game? Let's imagine you are launching a probe to Minmus for the first time. You conduct your transfer burn and see your flight path enter the SoI for Minmus. The flight engineers at KSC have a rough estimate for the mass but can't predict your flight path with any certainty. So you cross into the SoI and from your ship you see a 'projected trajectory'. Think hurricane path projections, but in three dimensions. Specifically, it would be a cone with a small angle and the radius of the cone increases, giving you a circular projected area where you would leave the SoI. You would exit the SoI and re-enter Kerbin's SoI, but your exact position would be unknown since the guys at KSC couldn't plot an exact flight path.

4) Giving each sensor a reason for being there other than 'doing science' would make their existence crucial to gameplay. A quick breakdown:

Gravity sensor - Flight paths and mass - Gives the cone of projected flight path

Accelerometer - Surface gravity and radius - Discover 'orbit hazards' like Mascons on the real Moon (they mess up orbits, could be fun)

Barometer - Atmospheric structure and pressure - Gives data on re-entry angles/speeds if that became a game mechanic (which would be wicked)

Thermometer - Temperature and atmospheric content - Adjusts life-support systems, efficiency of coolant systems, EVA approval from KSC

Altimeter - I would love to see this become a core science component since all stock pods come equipped with a radar altimeter in the cockpit. The tech exists within the game world, so I don't think its a far stretch. SCANsat has been a lot of fun, especially the biomes mapping.

5) This last part I imagine would be hard to implement, but I think it would be fun if KSC 'highly recommended' probes before manned. To keep it simple and require only two successful probe missions. First, fly-by probes could unlock manned orbit and second, soft-landing probes unlock manned landing. Perhaps the Kraken could guard the doors, so to speak...

6) Finally, probes should give the engineers at KSC a 'rough estimate' of the values and give a small value of science while manned missions provide a greater accuracy of measurement and have a high science value. For this, the best I could come up with would be that probes give erratic/large-error measurements for surface speed, altitude, pressure etc. I think it would be dead funny if your first probe landing became an experiment in lithobraking (but still yielded data required to unlock manned before telemetry was lost) because the probe sensors weren't sensitive enough.

I don't troll the forums, but I know that the role-playing aspect of having your very own space program. Progression of knowledge of the universe gives a player a sense of skill building and mastery of abilities. I wish I could sit down with the devs for a left-handed cigarette and ask them about their plans for astronaut stats/ranks/medals. I would love a system of creating programs similar to Mercury, Gemini and Apollo (plus a mission patch creator!) I hope I'm not the only one who would love to see more RPG elements added to the Kerbals themselves, but I do like that quote that's been floating around "If you want to make your Kerbal go poo, go play the Sims."

JS

PS - Radius = sqrt( (G x Mass)/g ) so between the gravity sensor and accelerometer, you could calculate the average radius. A final thought, I know many people find the density of the Kerbal Universe to be preposterous, so why not have G change. Interestingly, fundamental constants (i.e. proton and electron mass) could change by 4% and still function in the Universe we known.

[JiWint]

Unknown flight paths? Sounds interesting!

[Sekonda]

I was disappointed to see this was the case with being able to blindly throw yourself at planets.

However, with mods like SCANSAT, you can completely map, and you can end probes with gravity sensors and atmosphere detectors to return data and also practice landing with unmanned probes, rovers and landers before people are sent.

You could also fly blind and dump your kerbals there in a crude fashion but its more down to the player and, I use the term lightly, a sense of role-play and respect for the... Structure, of the game.

I, myself, have at least four probes to place, if you use remote tech you also have to set up comms networks.

I think that, in some respects, mods will be give way more support and Squad will let the modding community craft the finer points of the game so everyone can have their own personal play style and game to play.

[Rassa Farlander]

I like these ideas

[DJRWolf]

You could also look up some of the sensors used on real probes. Probes like the Voyager's has sensors for detecting magnetic fields and the charged particles of the solar and now interstellar winds. Plus sensors for detecting Van Allen radiation belts.

Another way to improve probes is to have sample collection arms on them and sample return containers to carry a small container of samples back without having to send a manned mission to get them. You can then have a manned mission get more advanced and in-depth samples if you choose to follow up. There is also air samples you can collect; even from a gas giant.

[JadedStoner]

You could also look up some of the sensors used on real probes. Probes like the Voyager's has sensors for detecting magnetic fields and the charged particles of the solar and now interstellar winds. Plus sensors for detecting Van Allen radiation belts.

Another way to improve probes is to have sample collection arms on them and sample return containers to carry a small container of samples back without having to send a manned mission to get them. You can then have a manned mission get more advanced and in-depth samples if you choose to follow up. There is also air samples you can collect; even from a gas giant.

Check these out:

KDex - Kerbal Dust Experiment

Scoop-o-Matic - Robotic surface samples

L-Tech - Radiation and Radio Senors

[JadedStoner]

I think that, in some respects, mods will be give way more support and Squad will let the modding community craft the finer points of the game so everyone can have their own personal play style and game to play.

Agreed, I love messing around with RemoteTech and TAC Lifesupport, but it can be very time consuming. All of these could be done in a mod, alas I have zero programming knowledge.

[Helix935]

Check these out:

KDex - Kerbal Dust Experiment

Scoop-o-Matic - Robotic surface samples

L-Tech - Radiation and Radio Senors

don't forgot this

Mast Cam - remote crew reports ( there is another along with he scoop-o-matic)

[JadedStoner]

don't forgot this

Mast Cam - remote crew reports ( there is another along with he scoop-o-matic)

Just downloaded that one last night! Haven't tried it yet.