Amphibious Hydroplane?

[leosperry]

While I know that the physics for actual hydroplanes will likely not ever be implemented, I wonder what we can do to come up with a viable substitute.

This challenge comes from an idea I had about Laythe. I decided to build an amphibious craft for Laythe. The idea was that even if I missed the land on landing, I could just jet through the water then ease onto land. I put 1 FL-t800 on its side, mounted a couple of "Modular Girder Segments" on it at angles pointing downward, then mounted a couple more FL-T800 fuel tanks as pontoons. I mounted wheels to the outside of the pontoons. I then added fuel lines from the pontoons to the center fuel tank and added an engine to the top tank. I also added a couple of downward facing side mounted engines for getting back to orbit.

The idea was there would be 2 fuel tank pontoons and a single jet, above the water line, to push the whole craft through the water.

I tested it on Kerbin, and, well, it was a complete failure. Because the thrust was above the center of mass, it just wanted to nose dive in the water(if the wheels even survived entering the water at all).

It seems to me the solution would be to put the rear facing jet below the water line. I wonder if real physics would even allow that and how does the game handle it and how close is the game to reality?

Anyway, on to the challenge!

Challenge:

Easy:

1. Build an amphibious craft that can land on Lathe (water or land).

2. The craft must navigate from water to land and back to water or, from land to water and back to land.

Moderate:

Craft must contain all science equipment,a transmitter, and hold at least 1 kerbonaut.

Hard:

above requirements +

safely make it back to orbit to dock with mother ship

Edited January 5, 2014 by leosperry

[Pds314]

Does The craft need the huge 3.5-tonne mobile processing lab for moderate+? If so, that radically changes the design requirements.

Also, does the craft need to make orbit in one stage? or can it ditch the wings and landing gears/floats if it has them.

Oh, and does the craft need to be able to take off from water AND land?

And finally, what differentiates entries, that is, if my craft works on hard and UserA works on hard, who "wins"?

Oh, Also, mods... Are we allowed to HyperEdit things to Laythe? Can we run the game with FAR? Build things with B9 Aerospace?

My opinion on a new difficulty:

Hardererest:

Do this on Eve (with rockets, not jets), multiple stages are allowed.

[Darren9]

Is this just for stock parts? I've already had a VTOL'ing land/water plane on Laythe (propellers rotate for forward flight). I may go back with a R.A.P.I.E.R. design that can make orbit if I could use robotics and floats (and maybe a few other of the balanced mods)

[leosperry]

Does The craft need the huge 3.5-tonne mobile processing lab for moderate+? If so, that radically changes the design requirements.

Also, does the craft need to make orbit in one stage? or can it ditch the wings and landing gears/floats if it has them.

Oh, and does the craft need to be able to take off from water AND land?

And finally, what differentiates entries, that is, if my craft works on hard and UserA works on hard, who "wins"?

Oh, Also, mods... Are we allowed to HyperEdit things to Laythe? Can we run the game with FAR? Build things with B9 Aerospace?

My opinion on a new difficulty:

Hardererest:

Do this on Eve (with rockets, not jets), multiple stages are allowed.

The idea is that there is a "mobile processing lab" in orbit. So, no it does not need the "mobile processing lab".

Bonus points if you can land and take off from water and/or land.

Personally, I only use stock parts. I've looked at several of the mods, but I haven't installed any. I think at least for the moment, for me, I will stick with the stock parts. Only because I play this game as much to learn as I have fun. If there is a "winner" it will go to the person using stock parts.

Who is the winner? I'm a software engineer for a web content management company. For me personally, the best design is the most robust and the simplest. If you can build a lander that can return to it's mother ship and refuel and do it again and again, you win.

Imagine a science station in the Jool system with 1 lander that will land on all 5 moons and return. After finishing the Jool system, perhaps it might move on to Eeloo (after a refuel of course).

Edited January 5, 2014 by leosperry

[leosperry]

Is this just for stock parts? I've already had a VTOL'ing land/water plane on Laythe (propellers rotate for forward flight). I may go back with a R.A.P.I.E.R. design that can make orbit if I could use robotics and floats (and maybe a few other of the balanced mods)

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/7172/screenshot18k.png

very cool!

[leosperry]

Here's a Link to my mobile science station. It doesn't have the lander yet (hence the challenge).

http://i.imgur.com/tPmtfuJ.png

[Mic_n]

one I made maaaaaany versions back:

built to recover splashed down capsules with a moving gantry to allow for height adjustment (which isn't really shown off to particularly good effect in the video). Was before I'd ever started delving into mods, so it's completely stock and from a great many versions ago.

It's over 50 tons in itself, so it could handle a pesky little lab no problem. Getting it to Laythe however could be an interesting experiment

[Darren9]

I updated the little nuclear-electric design with RAPIER and enough fuel to de-orbit and re-orbit, low atmoshere/VTOL is on electric rotating props/nuclear rectors, has full science, carries one Kerbal and reaction wheels/small amount of RCS for re-docking. Uses P-Wing, Firespitter, B9, Robotics, Near Future reactors and a couple of half size parts from Skeppies mini-pack.

[Kasuha]

I have no problem making a craft which can go from land to water or back using stock parts. But I have not found a way how to accomplish horizontal water landing or takeoff - it has such insane drag that anything I put to it with some horizontal speed just turns over and any number of engines does not put it over a few m/s when it's in water. So it's got to be a VTOL.

[JiWint]

I have no problem making a craft which can go from land to water or back using stock parts. But I have not found a way how to accomplish horizontal water landing or takeoff - it has such insane drag that anything I put to it with some horizontal speed just turns over and any number of engines does not put it over a few m/s when it's in water. So it's got to be a VTOL.

actually...no!

You can just put some intakes on landing gear to make it float on water.Just take aeris3,put some intakes under its wheels,and now you can land on water,and take off it!

[Mic_n]

I have no problem making a craft which can go from land to water or back using stock parts. But I have not found a way how to accomplish horizontal water landing or takeoff - it has such insane drag that anything I put to it with some horizontal speed just turns over and any number of engines does not put it over a few m/s when it's in water. So it's got to be a VTOL.

"angle it."

Adjust your 'floats' so the thing sits with a distinct nose-up attitude, so your thrust not only pushes forward but provides you with some lift in itself.

[MrCoolx10]

Guys Stock seaplanes are easy. This took me 10m to design.

Use intakes

[MrCoolx10]

Guys Stock seaplanes are easy. This took me 10m to design.

Use intakes

[MrCoolx10]

Sorry posted twice

[Darren9]

Guys Stock seaplanes are easy. This took me 10m to design.

~snip~

Use intakes

But, it doesn't carry all science nor de and re-orbit on Laythe with some fuel spare to explore the surface or dock to a "mother ship" in space. Having all that to complete the hardest challenge level may push you past 10 min of design time It has for me.

[MrCoolx10]

Yes I agree it did not complete the challenge but the seaplane construction and design is easier than it might seem.

[Darren9]

Yes I agree it did not complete the challenge but the seaplane construction and design is easier than it might seem.

I'm not sure, you can get VTOL with an extra 1T jet engine pointing down in correct spot, that allows to loose 1.5-2T of landing gears and use virtually weightless rover wheels to move between land/water, and not need to worry so much about high lift to get onto/out of the water at a reasonably low speed. Plus potentially less mass to drag back to orbit (and to and from Laythe). A VTOL may win VS a seaplane. Edited January 7, 2014 by Darren9

[Darren9]

I think I may have one for the hardest level on stock parts, I started in an low Laythe orbit (60Km), de-orbited (sparingly, just lowered Pe to 30Km) flew a short distance in the lower atmosphere to a lake and VTOL'd onto the water and attempted to move across it. Not very efficient but it can move at a few m/s (at 20m/s it has failed catastrophically), better to lift off and fly. It can land VTOL on land as well and drive in and out of water on the rover wheels. You only get maybe 10 mins of powered jet movement in the lower atmosphere, could be best to aim to land on land and drive to water as a solar powered rover, however the whole thing weighs only 10T, ship some extra fuel with it and do a couple of surface missions with re-fueling in between if you want to explore. I made it back to a 80Km reasonably circular orbit with just 20 fuel remaining, that was my first try though, a more efficient ascent may be possible. The "Mother Ship" would need to handle final approach/docking as it has only reaction wheels and no RCS or take a little orbital tug to service it. CoM is stationary and aligned with front docking port and VTOL engine at any fuel load, should be easy to transport to and from Laythe. Has small science, goo and the four other meters, pilot can dismount/re-board anywhere for a surface sample.

I love the colours on Laythe

[Mic_n]

I'm not sure, you can get VTOL with an extra 1T jet engine pointing down in correct spot, that allows to loose 1.5-2T of landing gears and use virtually weightless rover wheels to move between land/water, and not need to worry so much about high lift to get onto/out of the water at a reasonably low speed. Plus potentially less mass to drag back to orbit (and to and from Laythe). A VTOL may win VS a seaplane.

Unless something has changed in the last patch or so, landing gear are actually weightless in-game. The physics engine ignores them.

[leosperry]

I think I may have one for the hardest level on stock parts, I started in an low Laythe orbit (60Km), de-orbited (sparingly, just lowered Pe to 30Km) flew a short distance in the lower atmosphere to a lake and VTOL'd onto the water and attempted to move across it. Not very efficient but it can move at a few m/s (at 20m/s it has failed catastrophically), better to lift off and fly. It can land VTOL on land as well and drive in and out of water on the rover wheels. You only get maybe 10 mins of powered jet movement in the lower atmosphere, could be best to aim to land on land and drive to water as a solar powered rover, however the whole thing weighs only 10T, ship some extra fuel with it and do a couple of surface missions with re-fueling in between if you want to explore. I made it back to a 80Km reasonably circular orbit with just 20 fuel remaining, that was my first try though, a more efficient ascent may be possible. The "Mother Ship" would need to handle final approach/docking as it has only reaction wheels and no RCS or take a little orbital tug to service it. CoM is stationary and aligned with front docking port and VTOL engine at any fuel load, should be easy to transport to and from Laythe. Has small science, goo and the four other meters, pilot can dismount/re-board anywhere for a surface sample.

I love the colours on Laythe

Wow, Just wow.

TBH, I hadn't thought of trying to make it fly like a plane. I just wanted a lander that could drive and float and get all the science. I am truly impressed. Would you mind taking a couple of screen shots from the bottom, top and rear. I'm curious how you mounted that engine on the underside.

Here's a pic of the "Mother Ship"

Edited January 8, 2014 by leosperry

[Darren9]

^ You could take a peek at the Craft file leosperry if you like. Top metal plate is the root, then attached VTOL jet to that plate, then the four side plates to the top plate to make an open bottom cube with engine enclosed (the engine clips through the sides a bit but the game allows it), then the rest with attempt to keep the CoM in the middle of the cube. It was fun to make and a miracle that it worked, thanks for the challenge

[JordanLL]

http://imgur.com/a/JKDfb

Stock Amphibious VTOL SSTO Hydroplane to Laythe by docking to fuel in low Kerbin orbit. Undocked in Laythe orbit for landing, then flew back to space and docked again before returning to Kerbin.

Hits about 118 m/s in water without splashing with three rapiers and two atomic engines running. Can land safely on rocky terrain (on wheels) or water (on air intakes) using either vertical jets or parachutes. Has a drone core and an external command chair.

Easily transitions from sea to land or land to sea with the wheels down using the rapier engines for thrust. Can take off from sea or land vertically, short distance, or long distance.

No cheats or clipping, but offset radial intakes were used liberally to keep the ship out of the water.

[Laie]

Four weeks isn't old, for a challenge. And anyways, how could I miss this?

Boats are slow and take insane amounts of fuel. Landing like a proper plane is tricky. But VTOL? No problem.

(orginially built for the Biome Hopper Challenge; borrows heavily from Claw's Spider)

[Master Tao]

Since the OP for this challenge hasn't been online since August 2014, I'll shut this one down. Feel free to start your own thread based on this challenge.

I'd also like to bring everyone's attention to Rule 2.5:

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