Evacuate Earth

[Ralathon]

OK. This experiment assumes that all people on the shuttle will be of perfect physical and mental health. That means I wouldn't even have the slightest hint of a chance, nor would anyone with the same disorder. A whole group of people, no chance of even one surviving whatsoever. Think about it.

This hypothetical ship is the last hope of humanity and giving your seat to someone who doesn't have autism improves the overall productivity of the ship. It's a simple cost/benefit analysis, If you can pick between 2 videocards for the same price and one significantly outperforms the other nobody in their right minds will pick the lesser card.

In such an extraordinary situation with humanity itself on the line, ethics and fairness have to give way to practicality.

[The Jedi Master]

This hypothetical ship is the last hope of humanity and giving your seat to someone who doesn't have autism improves the overall productivity of the ship. It's a simple cost/benefit analysis, If you can pick between 2 videocards for the same price and one significantly outperforms the other nobody in their right minds will pick the lesser card.

In such an extraordinary situation with humanity itself on the line, ethics and fairness have to give way to practicality.

You scare me a bit, but I guess you have a point. Still, doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

[Red Iron Crown]

Eugenics. It's apparently acceptable if we have to drastically reduce population size.

[Charzy]

Much as everybody loves to go "Eugenics? Isn't that what HITLER did? EVIL EVIL OH GOD THEY'RE ALL MINI HITLERS!", I don't think it's possible to form a logical argument against it in this case.

If we absolutely had to reduce the human population to 250 000, what possible grounds are there to pick a less genetically fit person over a more genetically fit person?

[EdFred]

The fallacy here is that Eugenics = Genocide. It doesn't. I don't think defective people should be passing on their genes.

[Red Iron Crown]

The fallacy here is that Eugenics = Genocide. It doesn't. I don't think defective people should be passing on their genes.

At all? Or only in the "pick 250,000 people to propagate the species" scenario?

[The Jedi Master]

You all scare me, you know that? I guess the Godzilla Threshold argument stands, but it still feels like leaving 99% of the population to die.

[Ralathon]

Much as everybody loves to go "Eugenics? Isn't that what HITLER did? EVIL EVIL OH GOD THEY'RE ALL MINI HITLERS!", I don't think it's possible to form a logical argument against it in this case.

If we absolutely had to reduce the human population to 250 000, what possible grounds are there to pick a less genetically fit person over a more genetically fit person?

It isn't pure genetics. It's more about how useful that person is to the ship. Resources on that ship are going to be scarce and limited, so everyone on board needs to at least pull their own weight and preferably a lot more. I wouldn't recruit someone who lost his arms due to an accident either, he simply isn't as useful as someone who does have arms.

People with genetic disorders often need some form of medicine or extra care. This means they consume more resources than a healthy person and thus their consumption/production ratio will likely be worse than that of a healthy individual. It is cold hard logic, but I rather not gamble humanity's continued existence on emotional kneejerk reactions.

[Javster]

"new working link"

"The account which posted this video has been terminated"

YouTube does NOT want you to show us this video.

[EdFred]

At all? Or only in the "pick 250,000 people to propagate the species" scenario?

At all. I'm not advocating state sponsored sterilization or abortion, but there are vast swaths of people that shouldn't be reproducing because of their genes. I do however want to emphasize it has NOTHING to do with heritage or race. Simply defective genes.

[Red Iron Crown]

At all. I'm not advocating state sponsored sterilization or abortion, but there are vast swaths of people that shouldn't be reproducing because of their genes. I do however want to emphasize it has NOTHING to do with heritage or race. Simply defective genes.

How would you prevent them from breeding?

[EdFred]

How would you prevent them from breeding?

That's a completely different discussion. Long story short, we don't have the technology yet.

[The Jedi Master]

Whoa, it's EdFred who's scary here. We got a whole new level of scary with you.

[Red Iron Crown]

Also scared.

[EdFred]

Why? I'm not advocating killing anyone - at least not for these reasons. I think what's scary is when someone has the mindset of "I have [condition] and the likelihood of my children having it as well is very high, but I'm so selfish, I'm going to give it to them anyway." I know a girl that has a hereditary condition where her bones were very brittle. She had over 100 breaks before she turned 18 from doing normal every day things. She had her tubes tied so she wouldn't pass the condition on. I don't think that is scary in the least. I look at it as pure selfishness if someone wouldn't do the same thing as her.

[Red Iron Crown]

She did that voluntarily. That's a huge difference. People have the right to reproduce, and that's not a right that should be compromised; it's a fundamental human drive. People with genetically inheritable conditions are often productive, useful members of society.

[EdFred]

She did that voluntarily. That's a huge difference. People have the right to reproduce, and that's not a right that should be compromised; it's a fundamental human drive. People with genetically inheritable conditions are often productive, useful members of society.

Just because someone has the right to do something doesn't mean they should do something. Unfortunately most breeders don't know where that line is. And when you have millions of them you get, well...*looks around the cesspool known as Earth*...this.

But you can't legislate morality or intelligence, so we're surrounded by selfish morons.

[Red Iron Crown]

Just because someone has the right to do something doesn't mean they should do something. Unfortunately most breeders don't know where that line is. And when you have millions of them you get, well...*looks around the cesspool known as Earth*...this.

But you can't legislate morality or intelligence, so we're surrounded by selfish morons.

So you would suggest some sort of technological solution to curb the "undesirable" genes from being reproduced? That's fairly heinous.

[EdFred]

At least being passed along, yes. I don't see how eliminating [condition] is heinous.

[Red Iron Crown]

I see, I think. You're thinking that genetically engineering the defects away is the solution. Count me in, as long as it's opt-in and not mandatory.

[EdFred]

I see, I think. You're thinking that genetically engineering the defects away is the solution. Count me in, as long as it's opt-in and not mandatory.

Sorry, gonna have to be part of UHC.

[RRG]

So, how long would a "perfect" gene pool last in a trip that would take thousands of years? Probably not much, even without cosmic rays and radiation. So it might be better to just exclude genetic conditions that wouldn't allow those that have it to complete the mission. And with time genetic engineering could take care of any remaining problems.

[Linear]

Would never work. Only takes one person to destroy something. There would be 7+ billion people.

[SargeRho]

We'd probably send seed ships or sleeper ships instead of generation ships. Since on a generation ship, none of the original crew would reach the destination alive, there is very little difference for the people that finally end up colonising the new planet between it and a seed ship or seed-sleeper ship, carrying millions of embryos and only a few hundred people.

[Charzy]

People with genetic disorders often need some form of medicine or extra care. This means they consume more resources than a healthy person and thus their consumption/production ratio will likely be worse than that of a healthy individual. It is cold hard logic, but I rather not gamble humanity's continued existence on emotional kneejerk reactions.

I was thinking less about them consuming more resources and more about them passing on serious genetic conditions to the future generations on the craft.