[WIP] MSI's Infernal Robotics - Model Rework (v02 Pre-Release Beta)

[smjjames]

Is something up with the speed of the half basic joint piviotrons? Because I can't make them move any faster in the editor, even at 2k speed and 2k acceleration. The speed and acceleration changes work in flight though.

[ZodiusInfuser]

Is something up with the speed of the half basic joint piviotrons? Because I can't make them move any faster in the editor, even at 2k speed and 2k acceleration. The speed and acceleration changes work in flight though.

If the speed is fine in-flight then it could be intended behaviour for in-editor control, since that's more for testing positions. I've messaged Ziw from the plugin team to see if he knows if this is a bug or not. I know that the older versions of the plugin didn't respond to speed settings in-editor.

[Ziw]

Is something up with the speed of the half basic joint piviotrons? Because I can't make them move any faster in the editor, even at 2k speed and 2k acceleration. The speed and acceleration changes work in flight though.

It is the intended behavoir: editor is all about precise positioning, so all parts move at their default speed in editor. You can set them to preset positions much faster if you open the preset editor. All Zodius's parts come with predefined presets for easier positioning in editor

[smjjames]

Oh it's normal? okay.

Also, just a bug warning, don't put the struts on until you're done copying stuff because theres something with it that prevents copying of parts when a grappler is on there, I've already posted about it.

Edit: Is the pivitron (joint pivitron-half basic to be exact) supposed to have a third node?

Edited April 4, 2015 by smjjames

[JeffreyCor]

Amazing as usual Ton of work ahead of me to remove everything tweakscale again, but your awesome work is well worth the time!

[ZodiusInfuser]

Edit: Is the pivitron (joint pivitron-half basic to be exact) supposed to have a third node?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/smjjames/screenshot40_zpsfl02aakc.png

That's a new one on me. I've just loaded the game up and I know what's happening. You're attaching the part to the truss surface rather than an attach node, so as far as KSP is concerned the part has two free attach nodes. You then move the part via the group editor, and IR doesn't know which node is the free end (and I'm not sure if there's any way for it to know). So to answer your question, technically yes that's what you should be seeing, whether its right or can be fixed is another matter. Just avoid using that extra node if you can.

Amazing as usual Ton of work ahead of me to remove everything tweakscale again, but your awesome work is well worth the time!

Not that much work, just go to your tweakscale folder and remove everything except /plugins , DefaultScales.cfg, ScaleExponents.cfg and TweakScale.version. In fact I just did this now with my current install as I forgot to do it when testing IR, and I don't want any of my other parts to be scaleable. Unless you want to go into each mod to remove definitions in which case you're on your own .

[AccidentalDisassembly]

Just playing around with the newly redone parts packs and whatnot - I think there's something strange going on with the stackable extendatrons, though I don't see why, they look awfully similar to the ones I'm used to and I'm pretty sure they have the same max extension in the config... They keep moving past the visual limits of their models when fully extended:

Non-stackable versions don't have the same behavior < Oops, that's not accurate.

EDIT: After playing around with it a little more, I think *maybe* it has something to do with sticking duplicated IR parts on other IR parts (or something). Take a look at this next image:

Steps to reproduce what's happening in the red-circled parts:

1. Make craft, put stackable extendatron on craft.

2. Scale that extendatron up one to the maximum.

3. Duplicate that extendatron, scale down one, then repeat this step until you have a complete stack.

Strangely, the base (largest one that was duplicated to produce the others) doesn't extend out very far...

EDIT AGAIN: Actually, if you follow those same steps for the green-circled non-stackable extendatrons (place, scale up, duplicate, scale down, duplicate that one, scale that one down, etc.), they will also have the same problem. Otherwise stated - if you stick another duplicated smaller extendatron on the end of the one circled in green, problem happens.

I am going to take a wild guess that something is happening with TweakScale + the extension range of the part + duplication, maybe? Dunno...

Edited April 4, 2015 by AccidentalDisassembly

[Zayn]

KSP I installed this core package, read the game inside out, what is there not compatible with what MOD it? ?

[smjjames]

ActiveStruts (and the rest of the Caelum Ire mods) are now 100% dead in the water, http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/95865-DEV-HALTED-Caelum-Ire-Technologies-%28CIT%29-General-Thread?p=1820738&viewfull=1#post1820738

Not sure if he meant that he is removing the download links as well or not.

Edit: Crap, the downloads ( https://ksp.marce.at/ ) are gone.

Edited April 4, 2015 by smjjames

[Ziw]

KSP I installed this core package, read the game inside out, what is there not compatible with what MOD it? ?

This package requires another mod, called Infernal Robotics. Please follow the link in my signature below and install it too.

[ZodiusInfuser]

Just playing around with the newly redone parts packs and whatnot - I think there's something strange going on with the stackable extendatrons, though I don't see why, they look awfully similar to the ones I'm used to and I'm pretty sure they have the same max extension in the config... They keep moving past the visual limits of their models when fully extended

Thanks for the thorough testing. I've been able to reproduce it and the issue is certainly a problem with the plugin. Essentially the ranges of the parts aren't updated when the part is scaled, but if you make a copy of a scaled part the correct ranges are moved over. Unfortunately Pellinor who worked on this stuff is still on holiday so won't be able to offer a fix until his return. As a quick workaround if you create the piston you want and rebuild it with copies of the original, then they will get the correct ranges.

Also, I noticed there's no translation range tweakables on the parts, so that's now being fixed.

ActiveStruts (and the rest of the Caelum Ire mods) are now 100% dead in the water, http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/95865-DEV-HALTED-Caelum-Ire-Technologies-%28CIT%29-General-Thread?p=1820738&viewfull=1#post1820738

Not sure if he meant that he is removing the download links as well or not.

Edit: Crap, the downloads ( https://ksp.marce.at/ ) are gone.

Marce has his reasons for leaving, it's just unfortunate it happened on the same day I put an update out with one of his mods included. I'm in talks with him about how to keep ActiveStruts alive. It will most likely become a part of the overall Infernal Robotics Rework rather than remain its own independent mod. No idea what's happening with his other mods though.

--------------------------------------------------

Based on post I've seen about IR so far I've got a question and a community request.

1. Should I re-introduce the open Basic and Flat hinge variants? They were removed because its easy to recreate them using the new editor features, however when you grab them to place them somewhere else their angle gets reset. Some players have said this gets quite annoying, and I don't think there's a plugin solution on the horison any time soon.
   
2. 
   
3. It's been pointed out to me that the mass of robotic parts greatly affects the strength of their connections. As such, for the next update I'd like to do a complete re-balance of all the part masses in this pack, but I could really use community advice on how to change things. If anyone could play around and offer suggestions of what to change it would be greatly appreciated.
   

Thanks

[smjjames]

Marce has his reasons for leaving, it's just unfortunate it happened on the same day I put an update out with one of his mods included. I'm in talks with him about how to keep ActiveStruts alive. It will most likely become a part of the overall Infernal Robotics Rework rather than remain its own independent mod. No idea what's happening with his other mods though.

If he wants to leave, okay, I don't have anything for or against that (being a neutral party here), I was just trying to say 'Wait, at least let others be able to fork off your mods' over there.

Want me to crosspost my bug report post in the ActiveStruts thread over to here or wait a bit?

[ZodiusInfuser]

Want me to crosspost my bug report post in the ActiveStruts thread over to here or wait a bit?

If you could wait for a bit until I know what's happening with its continued development that would be appreciated. Thanks.

[smjjames]

If you could wait for a bit until I know what's happening with its continued development that would be appreciated. Thanks.

Sure.

Edit: I just realized that I didn't provide an output log over there, but the exceptions and problems (except for one which I couldn't quite reliably reproduce) are very reproducible.

Edit2: I have a feeling you guys are going to have your hands full fixing the problems, especially the wierd targeting cube thing because I managed to get that to reproduce in orbit of minmus.

Edited April 4, 2015 by smjjames

[ZodiusInfuser]

Edit2: I have a feeling you guys are going to have your hands full fixing the problems, especially the wierd targeting cube thing because I managed to get that to reproduce in

orbit of minmus.

Most definitely, but I think in the long run it will be worth it. Infernal Robotics really does need reusable struts for certain applications.

--------------------------------------------------

I now have a github: https://github.com/MagicSmokeIndustries/IR_ModelRework/issues

If you encounter any bugs that are specific to the Rework parts (that are not plugin related) please report them there. It can also be used for making part requests, but if you do I ask that you provide a reasoned description with concept art / reference material of the part you'd like to see added. Note that adding a request gives me no obligation to create it (I'm doing this mod as a hobby in my spare time after all), but it does mean I'm more likely to consider the idea or revisit it at a later stage in the mods development.

[smjjames]

I'll drag the bug report post over here later when I get home.

[Dr. Jet]

How to use it??? All core parts have "category = none" and I still don't see any new tabs on the left...

[Mecripp]

Did you delete the old first and reinstall may help there is a robo guy right above the EVE guy.

[ZodiusInfuser]

How to use it??? All core parts have "category = none" and I still don't see any new tabs on the left...

You need the latest version of the Infernal Plugin Rework too, which adds in a "Robotics Parts" tab that will make these parts show up:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/114014

[Dr. Jet]

You need the latest version of the Infernal Plugin Rework too, which adds in a "Robotics Parts" tab that will make these parts show up:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/114014

I reinstalled exactly from there. https://github.com/erendrake/InfernalRobotics/releases/download/v0.20B/IR.Rework.P2.zip

No new tab.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Dr. Jet

[ZodiusInfuser]

I reinstalled exactly from there. https://github.com/erendrake/InfernalRobotics/releases/download/v0.20B/IR.Rework.P2.zip

No new tab.

Odd. I'm using the same thing and see a robot icon directly below the science tab. Maybe you could post over in the plugin thread with your output log? For the time being you can change the category of each part (tedious I know) to Utility.

[Ziw]

I reinstalled exactly from there. https://github.com/erendrake/InfernalRobotics/releases/download/v0.20B/IR.Rework.P2.zip

No new tab.

hmm do you have other mods installed and if yes can you give us an output_log.txt?

[Ziw]

Just playing around with the newly redone parts packs and whatnot - I think there's something strange going on with the stackable extendatrons, though I don't see why, they look awfully similar to the ones I'm used to and I'm pretty sure they have the same max extension in the config... They keep moving past the visual limits of their models when fully extended:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59567837/IR_Extendatron_Stackable_Strangeness.png

Non-stackable versions don't have the same behavior < Oops, that's not accurate.

EDIT: After playing around with it a little more, I think *maybe* it has something to do with sticking duplicated IR parts on other IR parts (or something). Take a look at this next image:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/59567837/IR_Extendatron_Stackable_Strangeness2.png

Steps to reproduce what's happening in the red-circled parts:

1. Make craft, put stackable extendatron on craft.

2. Scale that extendatron up one to the maximum.

3. Duplicate that extendatron, scale down one, then repeat this step until you have a complete stack.

Strangely, the base (largest one that was duplicated to produce the others) doesn't extend out very far...

EDIT AGAIN: Actually, if you follow those same steps for the green-circled non-stackable extendatrons (place, scale up, duplicate, scale down, duplicate that one, scale that one down, etc.), they will also have the same problem. Otherwise stated - if you stick another duplicated smaller extendatron on the end of the one circled in green, problem happens.

I am going to take a wild guess that something is happening with TweakScale + the extension range of the part + duplication, maybe? Dunno...

Thank you for detailed feedback. I think we found the root of the problem, but fixing it might introduce some breaking changes. We'll decide on a best way to handle it and post here when we have a solution.

[smjjames]

Copied from the old activestruts thread. These targeting cube things are wierd, can't help but think that theres gotta be a better solution.

I'll put up github issues shortly.

An actiongroup option to toggle the enforcement would also be good.

Also, I've got a few exception logs that are showing up in exception detector and a problem, I can't copy the grappler nodes or copy parts that have an activestrut part on them.

ArgumentNullException: Argument cannot be null.

Parameter name: obj
  at (wrapper managed-to-native) System.Threading.Monitor:Enter (object)

  at ActiveStruts.Addons.ActiveStrutsAddon.IsQueueEmpty () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at ActiveStruts.Addons.ActiveStrutsAddon._processIdResets () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at ActiveStruts.Addons.ActiveStrutsAddon._processUpdate () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at ActiveStruts.Addons.ActiveStrutsAddon.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

This one I was getting when I was attempting to copy.

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at ActiveStruts.Modules.ModuleActiveStrut.ShowGrappler (Boolean show,  Vector3 targetPos, Vector3 lookAtPoint, Boolean applyOffset, Vector3  targetNormalVector, Boolean useNormalVector, Boolean inverseOffset)  [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at ActiveStruts.Modules.ModuleActiveStrut.DestroyStrut () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at ActiveStruts.Modules.ModuleActiveStrut.ProcessUnlink (Boolean  fromUserAction, Boolean secondary) [0x00000] in <filename  unknown>:0 

  at ActiveStruts.Modules.ModuleActiveStrut.Unlink () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at ActiveStruts.Addons.ActiveStrutsAddon.HandleEditorPartDetach  (HostTargetAction`2 hostTargetAction) [0x00000] in <filename  unknown>:0 

  at EventData`1[GameEvents+HostTargetAction`2[Part,Part]].Fire  (HostTargetAction`2 data) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at Part.setParent (.Part p) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at EditorLogic.<SetupFSM>m__AE () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at KerbalFSM.RunEvent (.KFSMEvent evt) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at KerbalFSM.updateFSM (KFSMUpdateMode mode) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at KerbalFSM.UpdateFSM () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at EditorLogic.Update () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

(Filename:  Line: -1)

Also, I get this exception when toggling link enforcement (freeattach in this case)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at ActiveStruts.Modules.ModuleActiveStrut.ToggleEnforcement () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at BaseEvent.Invoke () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

  at UIPartActionButton.OnClick () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

Edit: Remember those little pink cubes? Well, they somehow got generated as debris when I recovered a craft (actually, not sure when they got generated). Edit2: Got it, it happens when I click freeattach link, don't actually link, then click recover vessel. Or rather it happened at least once of the two attempts.

Edit3: Okay, I managed to reproduce them in orbit around minmus while trying to get some uncooperative struts to link. They show as landed, 20km above minmus.....

When I tried to go to one (I didn't know what they were at first), it fell through the world after a few seconds and caused KSP to have a massive fit, had to force close the program.

[Dr. Jet]

Well... Log is long. 30+ mods and LOTS of MM configs. Possibly it's some kind of conflict with RealChutes (which doesn't shows it's new category too) or other mod. Log says "Instantiating addon 'IREditorCategory'" and no further mentions of any category issues or IR errors - just normal GUI windows creation, parts deletion and so on. ExceptionDetector is silent. IR itself works fine... though I was to change all "none"s to "Utility" by Notepad++.

As I'm the only one with this bug (or it seems so), you really shouldn't bother digging through that pile of... log in close proximity to KSP 1.0. Save yourself for time Squad breaks everything... again...

Thanks and good luck.