Is DLC for KSP a good idea?

[czokletmuss]

In my opinion YES, it can be. Why?

Besides the obvious advantages (game developer earning more money means longer support and possibile sequels, player gets more content to play with) and flaws (cutting out features from the game to sold them separately), the DLCs make possible a unique path od developing the game, combining both more money for the developer and more content for the player EVEN if he doesn't buy the DLC. Yes, this is possible - I'll use here an example of Paradox Development, who are using this solution for a long time. According to the game dev:

Every time you start making a new game, you begin with a design where you try to imagine the best game you can make. Then you make a plan and start working on it, making tweaks and changes to the plan as you go along (first contact with the enemy and all that). As you get nearer to completion, the number and scale of the changes you can make gets smaller; it all becomes about making sure the features you actually put in the game work, so you can’t risk doing anything too large.

However, as you get nearer and nearer a complete game, you get more and more time to play something that is actually the complete game. As you get better at the game, you start to come up with ideas - new ideas that will completely change the balance of the game, ideas that would probable break everything if you put them in on the week of release.

(...)

This has made it so that it’s actually more fun to work on a released game. If used to be more fun at the start of the project, when everything was possible, but when you can continuously play the game, you can come up with things you want to improve and then do them. Some of the new stuff ends up in a paid-for expansion and some of the stuff comes in free patches (often the patch that accompanies a major expansion could be a mini-expansion in itself).

Sometimes the lines between what should be a paid feature and what should be a free feature becomes a little blurred, but we try to operate on the principle that as long as people keep having more and more fun with the game without expansions they will keep playing and hopefully buy enough expansions so that we can keep working on our games for years to come.

Source: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?746634-Europa-Universalis-IV-Conquest-of-Paradise-Dev-Diary-%96-Random-free-stuff!

The last sentence is the most important one. Basically this approach in KSP would look more or less like this:

1. Squad finishes KSP (let's say it's 1.00 version)

2. Some patches are released (1.00 -> let's say 1.06)

In the meantime, Squad is working on a, for example, Interstellar DLC. But not all of the new features will be included in the next DLC - in fact a good chunk of them will be realeasd for free. So the day of the release comes and:

3. Interstellar DLC is released with the patch 1.10

-> content from the patch is free: for instance some new parts, new animations, more tweakables, bugfixes and one new capsule

-> contet from the DLC is paid and includes bigger featurs like another solar system and antimatter drive than enables to reach it.

In the en Squad is happy because they earn more money (DLC) and community is happy too, because devs care about us and not only continue to fix the game but also give us some goodies for free (patch).

This is just an example and the proportions between patch and DLC may be different - for instance it's easy to imagine that free patch adds new solar system but only DLC enables higher time warps and new engine which makes it easy to get there. So even only with patch you'll be able to go there but it'll take A LOT of time and truly gigantic rockets - it would be much easier to just buy the DLC and enjoy all the goodies.

As you can see, the DLCs aren't anything bad by themselves. This solution (DLC+patch) works for Paradox for years and I see no reason why it couldn't work for the Squad and for us, players.

If you wish to discuss this topic, please be rational and don't turn it into a flamewar. Thank you.

Edited January 10, 2014 by czokletmuss

[TechnicalK3rbal]

I would undoubtedly purchase the dlc.

[Barklight]

You pose a valid argument, the only constraint that I see would be with including partial DLC features for free in a patch. Anyone who knows their way around modding would be able to just unlock the hidden features or add them on their own, since KSP is such a highly moddable game. Locking down the ability to mod the game would allow the DLC style content to profit more by exclusivity, but it would also alienate a lot of players. That is something which I don't think Squad is interested in doing.

I'm all in favor of for DLC's for the Kerbals, and when/if they are released will no doubt purchase all of them. But I think the main game should be completed to Squad's original vision first (as you basically summarized), and that DLC content should be exclusive to the DLC package and downloaded as a separate supplemental package, though the supporting framework would be patched into the main game.

[r4pt0r]

other solar systems and "warp drive" will not happen in stock ksp. squad said it in an interview with pc gamer. other than new parts(which are free via mods) what possible dlc could there be for ksp?

quote for others:

Holtzman: The game is science fiction, but one of the things that Felipe has really driven is that he wants the science to come first and the fiction to come second. So when you start talking about multiple solar systems, you get further into the realm of fiction.

Falange: Right, because you’re talking about interstellar distances, which means time-warp isn't enough anymore, no matter how fast you’re going. Now you need some sort of warp drive, and that falls into the realm of sci-fi. And that then requires us to break the laws of physics, which would in fact make everything much trickier.

Edited January 10, 2014 by r4pt0r

[czokletmuss]

other solar systems and "warp drive" will not happen in stock ksp. squad said it in an interview with pc gamer. other than new parts(which are free via mods) what possible dlc could there be for ksp?

It was just an example, there are other possibilities. And Squad changed their mind about multiplayer, so they can change it about other solar systems too.

[r4pt0r]

like what? i cant think of one good dlc that couldnt be offered by mods for free

[czokletmuss]

like what? i cant think of one good dlc that couldnt be offered by mods for free

There are a lot of things:

Major features

Multiplayer [1] [40]

Weaponry* [2] [3]

Faster than light travel [43]

Steam Workshop implementation

Resource mining* [4]

Oceanic exploration [5]

Reentry heat [6]

Robotics / mechanics [7]

Realistic aerodynamics [8]

The universe

N-body physics and lagrange points

New stars, planets, moons and asteroids

Terraforming*

More easter eggs

Larger or more realistic scale planets*[41]

Construction

Orbital construction and construction on other celestials [9] [10]

New parts** [11] [12] [13] [14]

Alternative Tech Tree configurations [15]

Payload fairings [13] [14] [35]

Rearranging the parts list [16] [17] [18]

More symmetry options [19]

Show vehicle parameters such as weight, cost and delta V [20] [21]

Flight

More types of launch facitilies

Enhanced IVA / moving around in stations or rockets

Autopilots* [21] [22]

Rotatable docking ports

Toggable ASAS / selectable methods of control used by ASAS

Higher timewarp values

Life Support [33]

Better electricity management [23]

More functionality for satellites [24] [25] [26]

Auto-balanced RCS ports [27] [36]

Optimization

Combining parts [42]

No rocket wobble [37]

Using another game engine* or physics engine

Change part loading

Multithreading / Multicore functionality

64-bit support / GPU offloading support

Use of other hardware platforms or operating system types

Miscellaneous

Aliens*

Female Kerbals

Random failures / malfunctions

Cities and landmarks

Better crew management [28]

Parachutes for Kerbals [34]

Personalised Kerbals

More camera modes [29] [30]

Saving maneuver nodes in quicksaves [31]

Weather features

Kerbal cemetaries and such* [32]

More IVA views[38] [39]

Sure some of them can be or already are in mods but that's not important - solar panels, rovers, probes, docking and so on also were mods in the beginning.

[Levelord]

An interesting thing to note is that the entire KSP game in itself is technically a downloaded content.

Compared to most other indie devs, SQUAD has been very reliable in their updates, communication with the community and has added decent content that keeps things fresh.

However the biggest draw to KSP for me is actually the community. After bouncing around other communities, I've found this one to be the most laid back and mature one. Pleasantly restored my faith in humanity.... Uhh I mean Kerbality

[r4pt0r]

dlc that couldnt be offered by mods for free

try again. not to be argumentative.

[Barklight]

Dunno. Perhaps permanent base construction, another faction on Kerbin controlled by AI (for a space race style campaign) launching rockets/planes that you can see and interact with but cannot control, or a full built in mission campaign ala Mission Controller. Some might be / become core gameplay ideas, some could develop into DLC.

[Barklight]

like what? i cant think of one good dlc that couldnt be offered by mods for free

try again. not to be argumentative.

Here's the important part of this:

Mods are great. Community members create some amazing stuff. Amazing stuff that Squad has no obligation to support or help with in any way if it breaks.

Anything Squad takes on as core gameplay features / DLC development becomes part of their developer support promise. If they include it as part of their main game or through a DLC, they will support it if it breaks or has a conflict with another part of the game.

Most of the more popular mod developers do a great job keeping things up to date, but sometimes they disappear or go on hiatus for a while, or can no longer be reached. A good number of great mods have died out this way already. This won't happen with Squad official content.

[Comrade Jenkens]

Depends how they do it. DLC could provide many things that wouldn't quite fit the stock game yet are still cool ideas. e.g: 3.75m and 5m parts, interstellar, military, colonies. I would defiantly buy any dlc as KSP has been such great value for money. However it would be very bad if Squad simply cut tons of features from the game just to get money from selling them separately. (This is why I refuse to buy any products from a certain publisher......)

[draeath]

DLC for additional solar systems, I could totally get behind. Other than that... I don't see much good of it.

[r4pt0r]

op implies that this is after ksp v1.0 is out. by then mods will have some trouble being broken by updates, as updates for a finished,complete game would theoretically be very infrequent

[cardgame]

I am unopposed to DLC, but I am opposed to it being discussed strategically before the full release, as I am wary of feature cut.

As a longtime owner, I would be unaffected, but I still despise the idea of selling people short.

[JiWint]

NO! KSP is on steam,not origin.**** ea.

Anyway,instellar dlc? are you mad? I've heard there's instellar mod ffs...

[Javster]

What I don't like about sequels is that the original game is neglected. I hope it's different for DLC.

[Tank Buddy]

On their website they said

If you've purchased KSP before May 1st, 2013, you are entitled to the above[updates and current software], plus any Expansion Packs released for KSP.

I fall under that category, so I am indifferent. I don't know too much about SQUAD's future plans for updates after 1.00 or DLCs, but I would prefer to just have 1 whole and complete game. I don't see how a sequel would arise for several years, so I haven't been thinking about that either.

[KN_Namida]

there'll be no point in wanting an extra planetary system if the one we have already becomes more interesting. I'd quote the discussions on the second gas giant which "supposedly" will make its way into the final game, or the addition of some asteroids along Dres's orbit... but I digress. Travelling to another solar system with conventional, realistic means would take way too much time, so we probably won't see anything like that (we don't even need it).

But DLC like... extra "part packs"? Who knows. I'll still buy anything KSP-related, if DLC becomes a thing in the future.

[czokletmuss]

NO! KSP is on steam,not origin.**** ea.

Anyway,instellar dlc? are you mad? I've heard there's instellar mod ffs...

Why so nervous? The idea from the first post was just an example, nothing more.

But DLC like... extra "part packs"? Who knows. I'll still buy anything KSP-related, if DLC becomes a thing in the future.

Yup. We all know that there are some disgusting practices like day one DLC (which debutes on premiere) or some really silly ones (in "Tomb Raider" you can buy some skills for 1$ which normally you would unlock in 30minutes into the game) but I think that in KSP only DLC which would work would be extra content.

Besides, if DLC would require some extra coding (and they would) it could be beneficial for everyone - for example, Squad released a DLC about building colonies and includes all the changes necessary for it to work in a patch. Then modders can use this to make (free) mods for the game. Everybody wins.

Edited January 10, 2014 by czokletmuss

[G'th]

No, DLC is bad.

Now, an actual expansion, I could get behind.

[czokletmuss]

No' date=' DLC is bad.

Now, an actual expansion, I could get behind.[/quote']

Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content for a video game distributed through the Internet by the game's official publisher or other third party content producers. Downloadable content can be of several types, ranging from aesthetic outfit changes to a new, extensive storyline, similar to an expansion pack. As such, DLC may add new game modes, objects, levels, challenges or other features to a complete and already released game.

I really don't want flame so please post constructive posts. "DLC is bad" is as much an argument as "you are stupid" - that is, it isn't one. Please use arguments.

[jmiki8]

I would prefer buying a full game for a higher price. I hate how companies now release games. You buy the game, and also have to buy the 1982312 DLCs coming with it, in order to enjoy it. Anyways, how could it compete with user-made mods? Users make really good mods, ones which don't even differ that much from vanilla KSP in quality. Or should they have to make the game unmoddable? I'm pretty sure that would cause rage among the players.

[czokletmuss]

Anyways, how could it compete with user-made mods? Users make really good mods, ones which don't even differ that much from vanilla KSP in quality

Imagine that the authors of the most popular mods have an accident or just get bored with KSP and leaves - no more MechJeb, no more BobCat Ind., no more Kethane etc. With official DLC you have guaranteed support and compatibility.

[Themohawkninja]

Sure, I see no issues with it.

DLCs allow Squad to put things in DLC form that they were specifically not going to put in the actual game without actually putting them in the game (like weapons and aliens).

Sure modders can do the same, but (A) Squad has the source code and therefore has more access to the game/can do more than a modder can, and ( modders have one set of ideas, and Squad has another set of ideas, so the content would be different from each group.