No Need For Refueling

[Alpheratz]

No Need For Refueling

Kerbals have been losing precious time when SSTO's came back to the KSP. Refueling is a very long process and efficiency is crucial. While Jeb was taking a nap on the right wing of his SSTO, engineers thought of making a space plane that could deliver cargo in orbit TWICE before refueling at a station.

Objectives

Make a SSTO and fly it to orbit as many times as possible without refueling. SSTO's can fly on Laythe and Kerbin, so you may choose the planet you want.

Rules

- Stock only

- You must make a SSTO, this means no parts of the craft can be jettisoned at any time

- Propulsion methods allowed: rocket, jet, and ion

- The SSTO cannot interact with any other thing than the planet it's landing on

- The SSTO may be remote controlled

- The challenge must start and end at a point where the craft could eventually be refueled. On Kerbin, it's KSP. On Laythe, it's in orbit.

- Orbits must be achieved outisde the atmosphere of the planet (Kerbin: 70km, Laythe: 55.6km???)

- Orbits must be circular

- The craft must show precision langing. On Kerbin, crafts must land on the runway. On Laythe, the craft must land where I did in my attempt (see below)

- The SSTO must come to a complete stop before to take off again for an other orbit

- If there is room for kerbals in the plane, they must be able to get in and out

- The craft must have a docking port for refueling after the challenge

- The craft does not need to have RCS, as it is more efficient to move it with a tug already in orbit

- The SSTO must not be damaged in any way

- The SSTO has to take off horizontally

- Getting the SSTO to Laythe is not part of the challenge, therefore any method to get it there is acceptable

- Maximum of 3 air intakes per jet or RAPIER engine

My attempt

To start this very badly, I did not follow all the rules:( I started the flight on the ground on Laythe. Apart from that, I was very satisfied with my fairly simple craft, that achieved orbit three times without refueling. I actually designed it for only two orbital insertions.

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Points

Attemps are not compared between Laythe and Kerbin. The craft with the most orbits without refueling wins. On a tie, the player with largest payload wins. If the payload is only kerbonauts, its mass is the mass of the occupied pods. Therefore, it is important to specify the total payload mass

Leaderboard - Kerbin

Leaderboard - Laythe

Alpheratz - 3 points, 2 ton payload (did not follow all the rules)

Edited January 20, 2014 by Alpheratz

[rousseau]

Might try this. Fairly certain I can get at least 2. Since the scoring is confined to low integers, is there a tie break criteria? (like lowest starting mass, fewest number of parts, etc.)

[Alpheratz]

That would be the maximum payload. We always need to bring more stuff to space

So it's important to specify the payload mass carried during all the flights! As I said in the first post, if there are only kerbonauts in the SSTO, the payload mass is the mass of the occupied pods.

Discussion: would it be better to maximize the number of kerbals carried?

Edited January 19, 2014 by Alpheratz

[m1sz]

please, no clipping rule, dont want to see those thousands airhogs in the wings, kills the challenge and its some kind of cheating! even if it's not made via the debug mode

other than that, i'll try my best in kerbin soon!, had a nice ship in 0.22 that I think, was able to go 3 times intoo orbit, but will need to make it again

i liked the look too

[Alpheratz]

By "airhog", do you mean air intakes? In that case I agree with you, the plane should be at least a little bit realistic.

[m1sz]

yes that's what I mean, make it realistic

not like this: http://i.imgur.com/fRe6xXC.jpg

or this: http://i.imgur.com/ptK4fJb.jpg

working on my design

Edited January 20, 2014 by m1sz

[Mesklin]

What about craft like it, is it acceptable?

[m1sz]

oh man, my new ssto has 3 intakes, and it doesnt look unrealistic, I think the 2 intakes per engine rule is a bit too far away!, let me know if this plane can try this challenge!, i think it can make 3 orbits in kerbin

as you can see, one in the front, two in the sides

[Mesklin]

Craft on the picture were traveled to orbit and back 6 times and I stopped counting, it is so boring. But this bird can more, I spent only 2/3 of fuel for 6 times.

[Alpheratz]

m1sz, you may try the challenge, I changed the rule to 3 intakes per engine

Mesklin, I think you should try to reduce the number of ram air intakes

[barrenwaste]

the air intakes rule is rather silly. if all it took, in reality, were lots and lots of air intakes to get to obscene altitudes then you can be sure that we would have planes quite festooned with them. form follows function, that is as real as it gets. also, if it's doable in vanilla ksp, why limit it just because you don't like the look? your vision of what is good looking is irrelevant in the context of whether or not it can perform the functions needed to achieve the challenge goals.

[m1sz]

great!, im on it right now!

[m1sz]

ok, i've made it 3 times in kerbin, got a video of it, with a bit of optimization, i'll be able to do it 4 times i think , proof soon!

[m1sz]

It's taking a lot of time to record, I keep failing my reentry, and end up in the desert, hard to aim to the KSC!

[Pds314]

the air intakes rule is rather silly. if all it took, in reality, were lots and lots of air intakes to get to obscene altitudes then you can be sure that we would have planes quite festooned with them. form follows function, that is as real as it gets. also, if it's doable in vanilla ksp, why limit it just because you don't like the look? your vision of what is good looking is irrelevant in the context of whether or not it can perform the functions needed to achieve the challenge goals.

Yes, this is true, form follows function. The thing is that KSP roughly attempts to be realistic. Putting 100 air intakes to one engine is not even close. Nor is putting multi intakes in one spot or putting an intake on something that couldn't realistically hold air like a swept wing with a cubic octagonal strut attached.

Basically, circular intake means put it on fuselage.

[Kasuha]

- Orbits must be circular

What's your definition of a circular orbit? In your example, the difference between Pe and Ap is more than 1000 m. Can it be 2000? 3000? 10000?

On a tie, the player with largest payload wins.

What's your definition of payload? Is it whatever you declare, or is there some way how to determine what is and what isn't payload?

Alpheratz - 3 points, 2 ton payload (did not follow all the rules)

You gotta be joking. Will you put me on leaderboard if I don't follow rules?