CubeSAT to Alpha Centauri?

[Kryten]

Wasnt Nuclear pulse rated at 3-10% ?

The highest exhaust velocity I can find for an Orion pulse unit is 120km/s, and 3% of the speed of light is 9x10⁶m/s. Slotting those figures into the rocket equation, and doing a bit of rearranging, we end up with our vehicle having to have a mass ratio of 3.7x10³².

TL;DR: No.

[crazyewok]

The highest exhaust velocity I can find for an Orion pulse unit is 120km/s, and 3% of the speed of light is 9x10⁶m/s. Slotting those figures into the rocket equation, and doing a bit of rearranging, we end up with our vehicle having to have a mass ratio of 3.7x10³².

TL;DR: No.

Your wrong mate. I have the figure right here in front of me. Check out Project Orion: The Atomic Spaceship 1957-1965. 3 % is doable.

[Kryten]

What does he give as the exhaust velocity?

[NASAFanboy]

SLS takeing 100 years? Your kiddng right?. Your probably talking 100,000 years!

Sorry but if you want to move intersteller distances in that time frame with current tec then nuclear pulse is the only way. Fusion pulse may be a "near" possibility too. But forget it with chems.

Voyager One will take 70,000 years to get to another star, if it wqs in the right direction. It was launched on an Titan II, not heavy lift.

I'm talking about an tiny probe much much smaller than Voyager being launched on a much much bigger rocket. I'm not talking about science payoff either, as such a cubesat probably wouldn't be able to power itself and won't.be able to transmit data.

Whatever the case, I'm guessing best case scenario for tis is 500 years. Worst case, probably 30,000.

[Ralathon]

No but its a route worth looking at and researching.

We need something better than what we are currently useing.

What we have now in chem rocket is like a raft with a paddle on a huge ocean. Its not really practical or useful except for floating about on the beach.

In a couple of decades we certainly should. But right now there is simply no need for anything but a raft. You don't try to build a steamship using stone age tools. Especially if you just need to get to a few nearby rocks. Right now we want to get probes to different parts of the solar system and send some humans to LEO. In the future we want to send humans to Mars, Near earth asteroids and the moon. Only after that do chemical rockets become truly inadequate and we need to build something better.

Building a nuclear pulse powered probe to nearby stars today is prohibitively expensive. You'd need to divert a large part of the economic flow to the probe hindering other projects in the process. Right now the payback simply isn't worth the effort. Better to wait a few decades and move in baby steps. Giant leaps are cool and all, but you don't want to overextend your resources.

[NASAFanboy]

No, they're not. Star Trek is science fiction, not a documentary.

NASA is not developing a warp drive as of yet.

They are simply studying the physics and plausiblity of the acclubierre drive in hopes of future development. This could either be a dead end or bear in a technological revolution, we don't know.

Project Orion is not a good concept.

Firstly, the crew will likely not survive accleration. You're going from nothing to near escape velocity in a split second. That's painful, and all that's left of the crew is likely red spots vaguely shaped like a human.

Secondly, the EMP effects of an atom bomb will likely critically damage in orbit infrastructure and colonies should they ever pass through the immediate denotation area.

Personally, Orion is a wrong idea at the wrong time. Maybe, in 2100, when we invent inertia dampeners and pure fusion devices, it will be practical.

For now, you're trying to sail the ocean by shooting yourself out a cannon.

I think I prefer the paddle.

[crazyewok]

What does he give as the exhaust velocity?

3000–30,000 km/s usieng megaton H bombs.

And its not just a "he" this was come to by a number of physicists who wrote the book on what we know know about nuclear physics.

Anywy do your own research its there on paper.

[crazyewok]

Firstly, the crew will likely not survive accleration.

You're going from nothing to near escape velocity in a split second. That's painful, and all that's left of the crew is likely red spots vaguely shaped like a human.

Wrong, were did you pull that from? If you did some research you would find alot of work was done on a suspension sysetm that got the G forces down to between 1.5-5 G's. Plus we are talking a unmaned intersteller probe here. No crew.

Secondly, the EMP effects of an atom bomb will likely critically damage in orbit infrastructure and colonies should they ever pass through the immediate denotation area.

True to a extent. But you could launch a intersteller probe beyond earths orbit, use chems to get the prob up and then launch the nuclear drive whens its far from earth. Though if we did go the earth to orbit rout you have so much payload room (thousands of tons!) you could put new sats up with whatever EM sheilding you want as there no wieght limit. As for colonies...simple...YOU DONT TAKE OFF AND LAND THE DAMED THINK NEXT TO POPULATED AREAS! If your going to a colony then you would park it in orbit and send your supplies ect down on normal landing craft.

Maybe, in 2100, when we invent inertia dampeners and pure fusion devices, it will be practical.

The dampeners problem we have. As for fusion I agree, will work alot better. And hopefully be more politicaly acceptable.

I think I prefer the paddle.

Just dont expect us to get anywhere then with space exploration beyond the few probes we send out now and the meger maned spaceflight we are capable of. You can certainly snuff out any grand ideas you have now about human colonys or intersteller probes ect in your life time.

Edited January 21, 2014 by crazyewok

[Nibb31]

Here we go again

[NASAFanboy]

Wrong, were did you pull that from? If you did some research you would find alot of work was done on a suspension sysetm that got the G forces down to between 1.5-5 G's. Plus we are talking a unmaned intersteller probe here. No crew.

True to a extent. But you could launch a intersteller probe beyond earths orbit, use chems to get the prob up and then launch the nuclear drive whens its far from earth. Though if we did go the earth to orbit rout you have so much payload room (thousands of tons!) you could put new sats up with whatever EM sheilding you want as there no wieght limit. As for colonies...simple...YOU DONT TAKE OFF AND LAND THE DAMED THINK NEXT TO POPULATED AREAS! If your going to a colony then you would park it in orbit and send your supplies ect down on normal landing craft.

The dampeners problem we have. As for fusion I agree, will work alot better. And hopefully be more politicaly acceptable.

Just dont expect us to get anywhere then with space exploration beyond the few probes we send out now and the meger maned spaceflight we are capable of. You can certainly snuff out any ideas you have now about human colonys ect in your life time.

The last time they blew up a bomb in LEO, it destroyed 1/3rd of our satellites and cut power to the western seaboard. Don't get me wrong, I believe that we will colonize the moon and Mars and spread out to the outer planets in my lifetime, but Project Orion needs more testing and we need pure fusion devices

Right now, chemical or NERVA is all we need to conquer the inner system. Maybe VASMIR too. Why use Orion of there are other methods that do not include risking our infrastrcture or electrcity?

[crazyewok]

Building a nuclear pulse powered probe to nearby stars today is prohibitively expensive. You'd need to divert a large part of the economic flow to the probe hindering other projects in the process. Right now the payback simply isn't worth the effort. Better to wait a few decades and move in baby steps. Giant leaps are cool and all, but you don't want to overextend your resources.

No I 100% agree mate.

It just the OP asked about sending a probe to alpha centuri usieng SLS. Nuclear pulse is the only real way we know. But it would just be a complete waste of resources at this time. We dont even know if Alpha centuri has anything worth sending a probe to, we may have more intresting neigbours!

[crazyewok]

Right now, chemical or NERVA is all we need to conquer the inner system. Maybe VASMIR too.

They are all great and all. But they dont sort the REAL issue, cost of earth to orbit. Thats the REAL inhibitor. Unless you can cut the cots of that mars and moon coloneys ect are a pipe dream and will never happen.

VASMIR great for small probes and NERVA for putting a man on mars but not the sort of things like colonys ect we al hope for.

Anyway the EM problem could very well be overcome. The main problem of the first LEO test was that it was very poorly planned out. It was more of a "certain body member" waving stunt to russia than a actually real test.

[NASAFanboy]

They are all great and all. But they dont sort the REAL issue, cost of earth to orbit. Thats the REAL inhibitor. Unless you can cut the cots of that mars and moon coloneys ect are a pipe dream and will never happen.

VASMIR great for small probes and NERVA for putting a man on mars but not the sort of things like colonys ect we al hope for.

Anyway the EM problem could very well be overcome. The main problem of the first LEO test was that it was very poorly planned out. It was more of a "certain body member" waving stunt to russia than a actually real test.

How about we believe what we want to believe and stop arguing.

Our positions won't change, so this is getting nowhere.

[crazyewok]

Here we go again

Hey the guys wants to send a probe to alpha centuri I mean there no other way Chems wont do it. Nor will NERVA or VASMIR. Its the only logical (excluding politics) way you can do it without Scifi stuff like antimatter or warp drives.

Not that it would be worth it.

[crazyewok]

How about we believe what we want to believe and stop arguing.

Our positions won't change, so this is getting nowhere.

Believe what you want. But if you wont change your positon then you need to accept right here and now there will be NO Mars colonys and NO intersteller probes in you life time PERIOD.

That scientific fact. Unless you have a good way to get HUGE payloads into orbit, cut those dream right here and now. In fact even seeing the first man on mars may be far beyond what we will ever see. So give those dreams up unless you want a life of disapointmnet.

[Nibb31]

Since there is no operational Orion drive in service, nobody has any plans to build one, and the economical and political simply doesn't make sense, then Orion is sci-fi too. Now, let's quit the Orion talk please.

Can a mod intervene here? The incessant trolling about Orion is getting really annoying.

[crazyewok]

Since there is no operational Orion drive in service, nobody has any plans to build one, and the economical and political simply doesn't make sense, then Orion is sci-fi too. Now, let's quit the Orion talk please.

Can a mod intervene here? The incessant trolling about Orion is getting really annoying.

Trolling?

I have a scientific opinion in my opinion that is the best way for any sort of space expansion or interstellar exploration.

Plus this is a science forum not a POLITICAL forum. So to be the political aspects are irrelevant.

The OP asked what the best way to get a probe to Alpha centuri well thats it.

[Kryten]

Anywy do your own research its there on paper.

I have, I've looked at the actual published reports on Orion from the 50s and 60s, none of which give anything remotely close to that figure.

[crazyewok]

Since there is no operational Orion drive in service, nobody has any plans to build one, and the economical and political simply doesn't make sense, then Orion is sci-fi too. Now, let's quit the Orion talk please.

Can a mod intervene here? The incessant trolling about Orion is getting really annoying.

Trolling?

I have a scientific opinion in my opinion that is the best way for any sort of space expansion or interstellar exploration.

Plus this is a science forum not a POLITICAL forum. So to be the political aspects are irrelevant.

I dont care if you dont agree I dont care if 99% disagree. I have the right to my opinion. You have yours.

I dont see why I should change my opinion anymore than you should change your.

Does it scare you or something that someone is pro Orion?

The OP asked what the best way to get a probe to Alpha centuri well thats it.

Edited January 21, 2014 by crazyewok

[crazyewok]

I have, I've looked at the actual published reports on Orion from the 50s and 60s, none of which give anything remotely close to that figure.

I want to quit this thread but look here Nuclear Pulse Propulsion: A Historical Review" by Martin and Bond, Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, 1979

[Kryten]

I want to quit this thread but look here Nuclear Pulse Propulsion: A Historical Review" by Martin and Bond, Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, 1979

That's D-T inertial confinement fusion, with a lot of optimistic assumptions. It doesn't have anything to do with orion.

[crazyewok]

That's D-T inertial confinement fusion, with a lot of optimistic assumptions. It doesn't have anything to do with orion.

Ok fair enough. Well its more the fusion route. But is worth a good look. Plus there as a page in the book I was reading. Il try and find it if I get the time.

Anyway I dont want to derail the thread anymore.

Fact is SLS is useless for intersteller travel.

Edited January 21, 2014 by crazyewok

[Drunken Hobo]

What would be the point in this venture? Travelling at 0.04c & with no means of slowing down, you'd pass by Alpha Centurai A, then 2.5 days later you'd pass by Alpha Centurai B. 100 years of travelling to spend 60 hours within the system. I don't see the benefit.

[crazyewok]

What would be the point in this venture? Travelling at 0.04c & with no means of slowing down, you'd pass by Alpha Centurai A, then 2.5 days later you'd pass by Alpha Centurai B. 100 years of travelling to spend 60 hours within the system. I don't see the benefit.

Exactly. Not much point really. And its not even certian there anything even there worth seeing.

[nhnifong]

Welcome to KSP forums where the orion debate never dies!