"Ignis" SSTO

[Mareczex333]

Ignis

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Craft download

Parts: 101

Weight: 17.41t

Powered by: 2 Turbojets + Nuclear engine

Air intakes: 4 Ram Air intakes

Keys:

1- Toggle TurboJet engines

2- Toggle Nuclear engine

3- Toggle Air intake

4- Toggle Landing gear

5- Toggle Landing legs

How to orbit?

1- Achieve 1300 m/s at 21.500-22.000

2- Turn On Nuclear engine "2" and max pitch up (to about 65-70 degree) with RCS on. (you will need to hold "S" all the time)

3- Right click on left turbo engine. (don't close window till you won't turn off engines) Thrust will decrease in right engine at high altitude, so slowly decrease thrust (left engine) limiter to balance it:

You will hear sound that thrust is decrasing.

- first decrase (to 85-90%)

- second decrease (to 70-75%)

- third decrease (to 65%) soon engine will flame out!

4- Close air intake "3" and shut engines off "1" when flame out (something about 28.000)

5- Point to 65-70 degree and fly with solo nuclear engine (RCS is not necessary)

6- Achieve 70.000 and level plane.

7- Level your orbit. That's all

Edited February 3, 2014 by Mareczex333

[Rune]

2- Turn On Nuclear engine "2" and max pitch up (to about 65-70 degree) with RCS on. (you will need to hold "S" all the time)

Look sweet! But that line caught my attention. I think I know why that is! Your intakes are placed below the center of mass, and at high velocities in rarefied atmosphere, drag effects (i.e: intakes not in line with the center of thrust) tend to overcome aerodynamic effects (control surfaces keeping you level). So, they may look cool where they are, but I would see about moving them upwards a bit. Or adding reaction wheels to compensate.

Rune. You got the aesthetics right, though.

[Mareczex333]

Thanks for opinion Anyway, your Dart inspired me to make own SSTO

It may be true, but... I took off the air intakes, made infinite fuel and did things from my instuctions. Nothing change as I thought,

Reason is that speed is too high, so changing directions of movement needs a lot of power, or lift rating. So even if it can turn around, then power of velocity will turn it back toward to direction of movement. So it need slowly to change direction.

I could fix that by cliping wings, but I didn't want to do that ;d

[TheTsar52]

That paint job just says: I have become one with death. I am the destroyer of worlds. (Not the exact quote or the right way to use it, but, meh)

[William Ly]

The Ignis looks like the Cfa 44 Fandance or Vampire. All you need is to modify this but I want the CFA 44 so create it!

Cheers

William Ly(Gaurda 3).

/\

\/

Project Aces.

[Mareczex333]

The Ignis looks like the Cfa 44 Fandance or Vampire. All you need is to modify this but I want the CFA 44 so create it!

Well... something like that?

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This version is without cosmetics. It needs a lot of adjustments like angle of front canards etc.

Hmm... private message me, because a bit off topic ;d

Edited February 3, 2014 by Mareczex333

[William Ly]

Well... something like that?

http://imgur.com/a/Kz0ji

This version is without cosmetics. It needs a lot of adjustments like angle of front canards etc.

Hmm... private message me, because a bit off topic ;d

YES! Boy then Post the Video in Youtube about this!

Try this game Ace COMBAT 6 OR ASSAULT HORIZON.

[EDIT] post the SU-35.

[EDIT 2] The Forum Rules say no jargons, Must be English. I Don't want to say Cfa 44 Nosferatu, because every Thread must be English.

Edited February 3, 2014 by William Ly

[Mekan1k]

This.. Is possibly the coolest SSTO I have ever seen...

[GusTurbo]

Ignis

Craft download

Parts: 101

Weight: 17.41t

Powered by: 2 Turbojets + Nuclear engine

Air intakes: 4 Ram Air intakes

Keys:

1- Toggle TurboJet engines

2- Toggle Nuclear engine

3- Toggle Air intake

4- Toggle Landing gear

5- Toggle Landing legs

How to orbit?

1- Achieve 1300 m/s at 21.500-22.000

2- Turn On Nuclear engine "2" and max pitch up (to about 65-70 degree) with RCS on. (you will need to hold "S" all the time)

3- Right click on left turbo engine. (don't close window till you won't turn off engines) Thrust will decrease in right engine at high altitude, so slowly decrease thrust (left engine) limiter to balance it:

You will hear sound that thrust is decrasing.

- first decrase (to 85-90%)

- second decrease (to 70-75%)

- third decrease (to 65%) soon engine will flame out!

4- Close air intake "3" and shut engines off "1" when flame out (something about 28.000)

5- Point to 65-70 degree and fly with solo nuclear engine (RCS is not necessary)

6- Achieve 70.000 and level plane.

7- Level your orbit. That's all

You make great looking jets, and now this SSTO. Keep it up.

[Pipcard]

Very cool SSTO design.

[EDIT 2] The Forum Rules say no jargons, Must be English. I Don't want to say Cfa 44 Nosferatu, because every Thread must be English.

Those rules probably don't apply to names.

[Rune]

Thanks for opinion Anyway, your Dart inspired me to make own SSTO

It may be true, but... I took off the air intakes, made infinite fuel and did things from my instuctions. Nothing change as I thought,

Reason is that speed is too high, so changing directions of movement needs a lot of power, or lift rating. So even if it can turn around, then power of velocity will turn it back toward to direction of movement. So it need slowly to change direction.

I could fix that by cliping wings, but I didn't want to do that ;d

Well, then that sounds as if I was completely wrong. What you are talking about sounds more like excessive aerodynamic stability (the plane acts like a lawn dart, trying to align with prograde too much). The solution to that is moving the CoL forwards closer to the CoM, or the CoM backwards. Also, those forward canards might be working against you, because they are placed backwards. Have you tried disabling them on the SPH? Might help. Or I might be wrong again ^^'.

Rune. Self-proclaimed SSTO teacher.

[Mareczex333]

Yeah. It was funny. Plane was pitching hardly. I noticed that before that canards are moving in wrong directions ;d I locked them and... it was worse. It looks that moving canards make plane inverse pitch, but it just looks like that. You know... KSP physics ;d

I don't know if CoL should be more to front or back, but I know it should be higher ;d

[Sgt. Cookie]

As far as I'm aware, general consensus is that the CoL should be behind the CoM.

Anyway, that is one badass looking SSTO. I'm guessing that KerbPaint made it the colour it is?

[Mareczex333]

CoL is behind CoM in this craft actually.

Without KerbPaint :

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[Rune]

As far as I'm aware, general consensus is that the CoL should be behind the CoM.

Anyway, that is one badass looking SSTO. I'm guessing that KerbPaint made it the colour it is?

Oh, sure, but you can put it too far away, too. Think about lawn darts, and experiment with launching a very long rocket with non-moving wings first in the front, then in the back, and then in the middle. One of those will be controllable, one will fly like an arrow in a nice parabolic arc no matter what you do, and the other... will be interesting

Yeah. It was funny. Plane was pitching hardly. I noticed that before that canards are moving in wrong directions ;d I locked them and... it was worse. It looks that moving canards make plane inverse pitch, but it just looks like that. You know... KSP physics ;d

I don't know if CoL should be more to front or back, but I know it should be higher ;d

Yup, KSP physics are a bit weird, and I guess I should thank you for testing that particular bit about canards out. And if you have a CoL too low... well, that should just mean that your plane likes to fly upside down. The negative dihedral of the wings will also help that, BTW, so this thing should do barrel rolls a bit too easily, but that is not the issue, is it?

Seems about the only trick else I can give you is to grab the whole ship in the SPH and tilt it to evaluate the CoL and CoM under more usual angles of attack (relative to the velocity vector, which is the important direction). This is how I do aerodynamic testing of the more troublesome designs. Seriously powerful tool, adn combined with the new ability to empty the tanks in the SPH, means I've had a surprisingly low amount of failed test flights lately... no nasty surprises when coming back down to orbit form a long flight with no "revert to launch" option! Seriously, no kerbals have died in 0.23 in my save.

Perhaps as you pitch up the CoL moves too far backwards for the control surfaces to compensate? But a low CoL should move forwards as you pitch up... dunno, I would have to actually download this and do a bit of tinkering to be of more help... and I'm starting to get curious by it, so I might just try that. The main point is all this is happening at high altitude (and therefore, speed) because it's the time when you have to point the nose farthest from your prograde vector out of all the climb. Perhaps just increasing the thrust to decrease the required angle of attack would work!

Rune. I assume kerbpainted ships work without the mod installed?

Edited February 3, 2014 by Rune

[Mareczex333]

I assume kerbpainted ships work without the mod installed?

Yes, it's working perfectly

Well.. I found out that in KSP there are only 3 things important.

- Lift rating (wings)

- Power(engines)

- Mass

More mass- makes plane slower and less contolable (more control surfaces wont work, because it will it will turn plane, but not it's direction of movement

More lift rating - plane can make a tight turns (more G's) "Can take more mass"

More power - make plane less contolable "can take more mass" - faster things needs more lift rating to turn. (mass will be noticeable even if it's not big, because of kinetic energy)

So if mass, lift rating and power would be numbers then perfect plane should look like that

[table=width: 500]

[tr]

[td]Mass[/td]

[td]1[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td]3[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Lift Rating[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td]8[/td]

[td]12[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Power[/td]

[td]2[/td]

[td]4[/td]

[td]6[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td][/td]

[td]Perfect plane[/td]

[td]Perfect plane[/td]

[td]Perfect plane[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

(engines create mass too)

I'm not physicist, so it's only my guesses

Edited February 3, 2014 by Mareczex333

[Mareczex333]

*added video

[Rune]

Ok, I saw the video, that shows things:

What an inefficient ascent! Let me point you in the right direction for effective airhogging: throttle control! You did perfect until the point where you start nearing flameout, but then you should have just throttled back. As you do that, each engine uses less air and you milk their thrust further. A tick will do at first, then more. It help to have both engines right-clicked so you can see when thrust assymetry starts, and can throttle down at the last second. When you get to, say, 2/3rds thrust, then turn the nuke also on to help with thrust, because you will start to lose vertical speed (it's good to build up >100 m/s before this), then milk the engines slowly to 1/3rd thrust or even less before turning them off completely. That way, and in that kind of design, you should let the nuke take completely over at >1,700m/s (surface) and substantially above 30kms, where momentum will help you avoid the horrendous gravity losses you had on that 70º vertical pitch up.

Oh, and the stability issue is much less than I had thought. Probably just intake placement below CoM, and totally something you can live with.

Rune. Also, pics don't do the craft justice.

[Mareczex333]

when engine flame-out I turn both off, pointing craft 70 degree... and turning them on back, but with 20% limiter and then decreasing slowly. This video is just to make easier orbit. It's not mean more efficient. If I would write it down in instruction, then someone would just look at it and say: it's too complicated.

[William Ly]

*added video

It cannot be seen in Canada! What witchcraft is this! [Edit]Not seen on your profile at Youtube just in google.

[Mareczex333]

It cannot be seen in Canada! What witchcraft is this! [Edit]Not seen on your profile at Youtube just in google.

Why it can be seen in Canada? I got all rights, so no one could block my video in other country. It can be seen everywhere. What is showing on screen when you try to run video?

[Pds314]

Gorgeous plane. I'm curious as to why you only go to 1300 m/s before burning to orbit though?

[Mareczex333]

Everybody says that. If I achieve 1600 m/s and i will start to pull up, then direction of movement will change slower than at 1300 m/s. So even if I will pitch up 90 degree, then thrust won't be enough to pull me up. Appoapis will be increasing for few seconds, then balance, and go down (at about 50km)

[Rune]

Everybody says that. If I achieve 1600 m/s and i will start to pull up, then direction of movement will change slower than at 1300 m/s. So even if I will pitch up 90 degree, then thrust won't be enough to pull me up. Appoapis will be increasing for few seconds, then balance, and go down (at about 50km)

The faster you go, the less your gravity losses. At about 1,500-1,700m/s, even a nuke is enough to counteract what's left of kerbin's pull (as felt in your rotating frame of reference, or however you want to picture it, the main thing is you are pulled less towards the ground) and keep accelerating, as long as drag is low. Hint: if you are pitching up above 45º degrees, you are doing it wrong.

Rune. I say this because I regularly fly 2 tubojet + nuke SSTO's.

[Mareczex333]

Yep, your way to orbit is better It's my first SSTO, so I don't know much about orbiting with low thrust. Thanks